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Old February 28th, 2012, 02:43 AM   #16: [Thread] [Post]
CONNERMAN2000
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Since the Vita has the touchscreen technologies and Sixaxis controls at its disposal, it certainly has the capability of creating an experience unlike what a console can provide. Or, better said, an experience unique enough to warrant its own existence (with the likes of Move/Kinect and the upcoming Wii U, most of what we see on the 3DS/Vita can be emulated, more or less, in a fashion very similar to what the handhelds can provide, I presume). It really just comes down to how developers take advantage of the tools at their disposal.

Sony is smart by using established name franchises to attract attention for the launch...now their intelligence will only survive if they use that initial awe-factor as as an eventual backdrop for a steady stream of new, Vita-exclusive IP's that take advantage of the technology in unique/creative ways that keep the public interested. If the future of Vita is just PS3 ports, or handheld versions of console franchises, we will see another PSP on our hands.

The PSP failed because it didn't create an identity for itself past the initial 'wow, this is practically a portable PS2'. The year 2005 was a remarkable year for it, and probably its most successful year (I don't have numbers to back that up, but with the launch of the system, plus the launch of GTA Liberty City Stories later that year, I'm willing to bet the popularity of the system peaked in its first fiscal year on the market). However, after that, it became the PS2's portable cousin, and I'm sorry to say, but the battery life of the machine wasn't even enough to hold that title. We should have seen some epic MMORPG-like game making use of the handheld's Wi-Fi (new tech for a gaming handheld 6 years ago), or at the very least, games that STAYED exclusive to the PSP (Sony has a habit of trading properties back and forth between their console and handheld, ultimately making it near-pointless to own both).

I'm hoping Sony learned from their mistakes. I don't, in ANY way, consider the PSP a failure. In fact, it was quite a success considering its competition, and the fact that its portability was put into question from the start, thanks to its horrible battery life. Yes, the UMD format was a bit of a dud (though for gaming purposes, it had its benefits, and history will probably illustrate that it helped more than hurt the gaming side - though the movie support was a horrendous waste of time, and only made Sony look like tyrants in the world of formats), but all in all, the PSP was a good start, and, if anything, a good lesson that Sony can learn from in making the Vita a kickass machine.

Here's hoping.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 04:35 AM   #17: [Thread] [Post]
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Originally Posted by Puffy Ghost View Post
I'd have no problem buying a Vita if it provided an experience I couldn't have on any other console. Right now it doesn't, and looking at the release titles it won't any time soon.

I'm all for using the best tech possible, but the difference between the way Nintendo and Sony use their tech is that Nintendo creates a gaming environment you can only get on their handhelds, where Sony throws their biggest franchises at it and hopes it'll work.

The awe factor of the Vita is extremely similar to the PSP, playing near PS3 quality games is pretty amazing, and so was playing PS2 quality games on the PSP...for about a year.

Well that logic went out the window when right now on 3DS you got SFIV (inferior console port), OoT (N64 says hi) RE REV, Mario Kart and SM3D as it's best games and MGS3D ( another inferior console port) heading down the pike. All those games as watered down console games.

Or should Sony release Crash Bandicoot to provide that experience you can't get anywhere else?


Quote:
Why wouldn't that argument work against the Vita as well? I don't need a Vita/3DS my iPhone plays sh*tty games just fine :\

I only bash "mobile gaming" because that's not actually what it is....yet. Appletards like to argue otherwise, but it simply isn't true, not a single mobile game holds a candle to Super Mario 3D or Uncharted.
Production value. While you have your SM3DS lets not forget you also have Steel Diver which is pretty much an iphone game but released for $40. A game like that would of been on PSN as a download titles for $10 cause it would of been hard to sell a game like that on Vita for $40.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 02:50 PM   #18: [Thread] [Post]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CONNERMAN2000 View Post
We should have seen some epic MMORPG-like game making use of the handheld's Wi-Fi (new tech for a gaming handheld 6 years ago), or at the very least, games that STAYED exclusive to the PSP (Sony has a habit of trading properties back and forth between their console and handheld, ultimately making it near-pointless to own both).
So was Monster Hunter the only PSP game doing that? I thought a Phantasy Star game made it onto the PSP too... Of course more would have been better but you made it sound like none came out at all.
 
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Old February 28th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #19: [Thread] [Post]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Matrix View Post
So was Monster Hunter the only PSP game doing that? I thought a Phantasy Star game made it onto the PSP too... Of course more would have been better but you made it sound like none came out at all.
I did, and that's my mistake...from what I recall, the Phantasy Star game you are thinking of was either a) a compilation of the Genesis Phantasy Star games refurbished, or b) a new Phantasy Star game that was still only a single-player game.

And it's pretty stupid of me to forget about Monster Hunter, though to my credit, we can agree that the series isn't anywhere near as popular in the states as it is in Japan. Maybe this explains, partially, why the PSP has always (and remains to be) been much more popular in East Asia than in North America.

Still, there's plenty of ignorance on my part there...I should probably do more research before I make any more generalizations.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #20: [Thread] [Post]
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I'm sure Warp will be here eventually and confirm the Phantasy Star game, I just knew the last couple of console games were designed with MMORPG bases but a single player story in there too so maybe the PSP game had that as well.

Monster Hunter may well have been the only franchise with that feature, and it's something that's sold a LOT of 3DS consoles in Japan on its release while no-one will probably buy it here. The Wii version was pay-to-play in Japan but free in the rest of the world, and I bet it still sold by the truckload. Thing is, if there was a really good Call of Duty-esque game with online multiplayer on the Vita or 3DS, you can bet that'll do very well outside Japan.
 
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #21: [Thread] [Post]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Matrix
I'm sure Warp will be here eventually and confirm the Phantasy Star game, I just knew the last couple of console games were designed with MMORPG bases but a single player story in there too so maybe the PSP game had that as well.
What. You're psychic?!

Pretty much everything Phantasy Star related past the Genesis/Mega Drive has been a strictly online-focused affair, yeah. Sega still throws some single-player stuff in there, but uh... Phantasy Star Universe was just absolutely, horrifyingly painful. I got an hour into that and just had to quit. I'm sure most of you have seen me rip one game or another apart on here, but whatever you saw doesn't compare to that.

Anywho, the Phantasy Star compilation/collection was released back on the GBA. They were also included in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis/Mega Drive Collection, obviously in addition to a bunch of other stuff. And there may have been an offline only game as well, but I don't remember which handheld that was for off hand. PSP got two multiplayer games from the series: Phantasy Star Portable, and its sequel Phantasy Star Portable 2. They were based on Universe, though with significant improvements and new stories, and sold pretty well in Japan.

The PSP releases of Phantasy Star and Monster Hunter have/had the same problem, and that's the insistence on using Ad-Hoc for local multiplayer. This isn't a problem in Japan because mass transit is commonplace and most people have relatively long commutes to work and school, but elsewhere that's not the case. And of course there's this stigma, at least here in the States, that playing (non-mobile) games in public is nerdy. So neither series has really gained much footing in recent years. Monster Hunter Tri on Wii apparently didn't meet Capcom's expectations, so they didn't bother to localize the Xbox 360's Monster Hunter Frontier. And Phantasy Star Online 2, which is a PC game, just hasn't released in Japan yet.

I believe there's a way to connect your PSP to a PS3 and trick the games into playing online, but that's not very realistic. And does in fact beg the question "why the hell isn't this just on a console in the first place?" Stuff like Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep also fits there, and even more so now that Vita is out and Disney still doesn't want it made available on PSN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VashTheStampede
Now they just need to support the system here in the States with a ton of the random JRPGs I so adore.
Not looking good so far. Admittedly it took the PSP ages to gain support and churn out its impressive library, but with Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter both being secured by Nintendo I'm a little skeptical here. Still:

Original:
- Ciel Nosurge (it's Gust, so probably via NISA next year?)
- Ragnarok Odyssey (no idea; unlikely?)

Remakes:
- Tales of Innocence R (unlikely)
- Ys IV (next year? hopefully)

Ports:
- Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention (soon)
- Final Fantasy X HD (whenever, and it's also coming to PS3)
- Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky of Zero Evolution (unlikely?)
- Lord of Apocalypse (no idea; unlikely? also available on PSP in Japan)
- Persona 4: The Golden (soon)


Edit: And a port of Persona 2: Eternal Punishment with new features was literally just announced... for the PSP. lol.

Quote Warp edited at 09:58 PM (February 28th, 2012) (Reason: Blargh!)
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Old February 29th, 2012, 03:11 AM   #22: [Thread] [Post]
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Do any of these JRPG's you speak of see any real level of success outside of Japan? I guess I could do my research, but your elegant insight is far more appealing and will probably beat any level of education I provide myself by perusing sites like VGChartz, which are hardly trustworthy anyway.

As for handheld gaming being given the 'nerd' image in the states, that has stuck true forever....but I believe with the on-set of mobile gaming taking hold, I could see some level of casual acceptance entering the realm. That being said, that argument could be flipped upside-down pretty quickly in that those very people are probably preferring gaming on their iPhones/cell phones, rather than, say, a Vita or 3DS.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 11:24 AM   #23: [Thread] [Post]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post

I believe there's a way to connect your PSP to a PS3 and trick the games into playing online, but that's not very realistic. And does in fact beg the question "why the hell isn't this just on a console in the first place?" Stuff like Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep also fits there, and even more so now that Vita is out and Disney still doesn't want it made available on PSN.


Not looking good so far. Admittedly it took the PSP ages to gain support and churn out its impressive library, but with Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter both being secured by Nintendo I'm a little skeptical here. Still:

Original:
- Ciel Nosurge (it's Gust, so probably via NISA next year?)
- Ragnarok Odyssey (no idea; unlikely?)

Remakes:
- Tales of Innocence R (unlikely)
- Ys IV (next year? hopefully)

Ports:
- Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention (soon)
- Final Fantasy X HD (whenever, and it's also coming to PS3)
- Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky of Zero Evolution (unlikely?)
- Lord of Apocalypse (no idea; unlikely? also available on PSP in Japan)
- Persona 4: The Golden (soon)


Edit: And a port of Persona 2: Eternal Punishment with new features was literally just announced... for the PSP. lol.
You had Phantasy Star Portable 1+2/Infinity on the PSP! I know, because I enjoyed them immensely. ...With friends! Just had to use a japanese PS3 account and download that one thing...hell, what was it called? Just connected my PS3 to my PSP and it put you in a lobby with others.
Pretty nice stuff. Regardless, ANY Legend of Heroes games are going to be a little bit delayed, if not unlikely, because Xseed, Falcom's Go-to for localization, has their hands full with Trails SC....and Zero no Kiseki.
AND Ys 4.

Quote Supplice edited at 11:27 AM (February 29th, 2012)
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Old February 29th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #24: [Thread] [Post]
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The Ad-Hoc Party thing? If that's it I downloaded that ages ago from the European store, just haven't used it.
 
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Old February 29th, 2012, 03:06 PM   #25: [Thread] [Post]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CONNERMAN2000
Do any of these JRPG's you speak of see any real level of success outside of Japan?
Generally speaking, no.

But it depends on what you'd consider successful. Obviously they're not breaking a million and topping the charts unless they're called Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts (and, even then, aren't the most recent releases in either), but established series and new IPs from the heavy hitters and old guard do consistently well. And for the others losses are typically minimized, if not prevented entirely, by doing limited print runs. Since virtually nothing charts, either because they're just not breaking that ~200k #10 Spot barrier or because the bulk of their sales are done online and thus not externally tracked, it's hard to give anything close to a fair estimate. I believe a fair goal for your average JRPG would be around 15k, though.

Of course, there are exceptions. Atlus has the Shin Megami Tensei metaseries, which includes the immensely popular Persona games. Another spin-off series of SMT, Devil Summoner, had two releases on the PS2, the second of which had a print run of around 50k. So it's probably safe to say that Persona, Persona 2: IS, and Persona 3 Portable -- all PSP ports -- sold at least (twice) that much. They're also available on PSN, so PAL gamers* shouldn't have had any trouble getting to them. Namco's Tales series exploded back on the GameCube with Tales of Symphonia, but was then sent to die with zero marketing for the PS2 (Legendia, Abyss) releases and the spin-off for PSP (World). Namco also sucks just by virtue of not localizing the actual PSP Tales games (Rebirth, Destiny 2), although Ubisoft did give Europe the PSP's Tales of Eternia port.

Rounding out the Top 3, insofar as non-Square Enix games are concerned, would definitely be From Software's Souls series. That one should be well known enough to speak for itself, though of course it also goes without saying that it's got little in common with other Japanese series.

Anyway, the PSP was deserted early on by Western developers, save Ready at Dawn (God of War: Chains of Olympus/Ghosts of Sparta), and the huge Japanese releases (FF: Crisis Core; KH: Birth By Sleep; MGS: Peace Walker) were few and far between. While the PSP really didn't make any significant dent in North America, whatever success it did enjoy -- especially in the last two years or so -- is owed largely to the JRPG and hacking communities.


* Basically none of this applies to PAL territories. Atlus USA, NISA, XSEED, Aksys -- the localization teams that are responsible for the bulk of releases in this genre all lack European branches. And, naturally, they don't support languages such as French, Italian, or German, either. PAL gamers fluent in English either have to import (which wasn't a problem last handheld generation, but is a problem in this one), rely on the PlayStation Store, or hope one of their own localization teams (Ghostlight, usually) pick them up.

Quote:
As for handheld gaming being given the 'nerd' image in the states, that has stuck true forever....but I believe with the on-set of mobile gaming taking hold, I could see some level of casual acceptance entering the realm.
Without a doubt; even now the problem lies more with us remembering how things were. I carry a DS or PSP with me basically wherever I go, and no one takes notice unless I've got the volume turned up. And I suspect that's more from curiosity or annoyance than them being able to recognize that I'm a 25-year old man playing Pokemon and Disgaea.

Quote:
That being said, that argument could be flipped upside-down pretty quickly in that those very people are probably preferring gaming on their iPhones/cell phones, rather than, say, a Vita or 3DS.
Probably, but there's room for both styles of gaming. I enjoy playing my handheld RPGs while relaxing on a bench or otherwise waiting around, but there isn't always time for that and, frankly, a lot of them weren't designed with five to ten minute play sessions in mind. So I'll throw in Mario Kart, or Panel de Pon, or Professor Layton, or any number of other awesome pick-and-play games. On smartphones, just swap some of that out for Angry Birds, or Tetris, or Cut the Rope, and so on.

'Course, here's my problem with Sony: They really don't get it. ...Yeah, it's rant time.

It's perfectly fine to make console experiences available on a handheld, but it's not okay to design a console and pretend it's a handheld. That was the problem with the PSP, and frankly I'm betting that's going to be my main complaint with the Vita once I pick one up. The constant and forced software updates, the loading of the OS before the game, the unskipable "we made this, yo" screens getting to the games, the load times once I'm in the games themselves, and of course ****ing awful batteries.

With anything that isn't a PSP (/Vita), I just have to make sure it's charged. If it's charged, I can do anything I want whenever I want with no problems. With the PSP, if I've not touched it for a while (read: three days), not only does it probably need to be charged because the battery has somehow run dry (did it go into sleep mode when I tried to turn it off? did I accidentally leave that WiFi switch on? what's going on?!), but I probably also have outdated firmware now as well. Which shouldn't be a problem because I'm not going online with it anyway, but oh... wait. You put the newest firmware on my shiny new game? And the game won't load unless I install this firmware. But the firmware won't install right now for fear of bricking itself, because my battery doesn't have enough juice. And the power might suddenly go out too, so even with the power adapter plugged in let's be safe and not try installing it. So we wait an hour to get enough juice to download the update from the UMD, then we'll wait another three minutes to install the damned update, then we can play. Sweet.

I thought the Vita's switch to memory sticks from UMD was to get around the loading times (and noise!) of the latter. But I've heard that Wipeout has a lot of lengthy load times anyway. Any of you gents pick that one up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplice
Regardless, ANY Legend of Heroes games are going to be a little bit delayed, if not unlikely, because Xseed, Falcom's Go-to for localization, has their hands full with Trails SC....and Zero no Kiseki. AND Ys 4.
Yeah, to say nothing of prepping completely unrelated games such as Grand Knights History and The Last Story. They've certainly bitten off a fair bit here, which is why I'm a bit worried about whether Second Chapter will actually make it to us. Hopefully Falcom decides to put forth a little effort of their own to get SC's two UMDs to play nicely with PS Store. I'd love to get the full Sky trilogy, Zero, and Trails of Blue. But that might be asking a little too much.

Quote Warp edited at 03:21 PM (February 29th, 2012)
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Old February 29th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #26: [Thread] [Post]
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Had zero interest in the vita and then i saw a review of Hot Shots Golf.. now I have slight interest. I really love HSG.. Open Tee never left my PSP once it went in.. in fact it's still there.
 
 

 
Old February 29th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #27: [Thread] [Post]
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Its pretty much the same game, Nico.

I say this as a fellow Open Tee addict. It was my most played PSP game by far.
 
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Old March 1st, 2012, 04:29 AM   #28: [Thread] [Post]
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Had zero interest in the vita and then i saw a review of Hot Shots Golf.. now I have slight interest. I really love HSG.. Open Tee never left my PSP once it went in.. in fact it's still there.
What is it with you and Hot Shot Golf?
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Old March 1st, 2012, 04:53 AM   #29: [Thread] [Post]
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If that's the game I think it is, it's called Everybody's Golf over here in the UK, isn't it?
 
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 05:11 PM   #30: [Thread] [Post]
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Quote:
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If that's the game I think it is, it's called Everybody's Golf over here in the UK, isn't it?
It is and it's wonderful
Quote:
Originally Posted by VashTheStampede View Post
Its pretty much the same game, Nico.

I say this as a fellow Open Tee addict. It was my most played PSP game by far.
I know it is.. but so is every other HSG game, and i still love it.
Quote:
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What is it with you and Hot Shot Golf?
Don't judge me you son of a bitch!

Quote Nicodemus edited at 05:11 PM (March 2nd, 2012) (Reason: Multi-Post)
 
 

 
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