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Old February 26th, 2011, 07:25 AM   #16: [Thread] [Post]
Kat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schteve View Post
Skimp on the randomness and it's an easy task. To take it it to the extreme, imagine if no mines were near the edges of the board nor next to each other. Such a situation is easier than your typical game, but it wouldn't require guessing, would it?
That would be an extremely easy game, and I think the density of mines in expert mode would make it impossible to do that. The whole point is to be able to play a hard mode without it being impossible to finish strategically. I think you are onto something about mines being in specific places/arrangements never requiring a guess though. If you could detect all the guesses and then re-arrange only those mines or swap them with other mines in such a way that you know you will not create a new guess situation, it would make the task a lot easier.

Quote:
Sure, in this case it's a more algorithmic task than reading, but it's not as easy as you're suggesting, as I discuss below.

"Can this one be figured out?" is precisely what I'm claiming is hard. You gloss over it as if it's a trivial step. There is no set limit to the number of additional squares I might look at to make the logical inference that this particular square can or cannot contain a mine. What is the computer to do in such a situation?
Surely at some point you decide that looking to another number is pointless? If nothing else, you run out of numbers. You're making that decision mathematically somehow, which is exactly what computers are good at.
 
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Old February 26th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #17: [Thread] [Post]
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+2 vs. Chaotic Evil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat View Post
Surely at some point you decide that looking to another number is pointless? If nothing else, you run out of numbers. You're making that decision mathematically somehow, which is exactly what computers are good at.
Mathematically somehow is the key! I have a plan and I think it's efficient. It won't look a lot like a human algorithm, but it will be much faster, assuming I have this right. I have to think it out a bit more tonight or tomorrow.

I have seen a clue effectively used in the end by something that was basically on the other side of the board, so I think human reasoning is a little too powerful for what I need to do. Computers can run through possibilities very very quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
If I understand this right, you want to make a minersweeper game that is very solvable. With your proposed solutions, what are the points of the game then? It looks like you want to give someone a job out of pity even though they suck at that job.

I may be misunderstanding your whole objectives with these but, it seems like you are trying to make it -too- easy.
Nah, it shouldn't be too easy. The idea is to maintain all of the strategy, but once strategy fails and a puzzle cannot be solved by intuition, i.e. guessing is required, that's when I want the program to work a little smarter and stop you from losing when you are now leaving the win/loss of the game up to pure chance. A lot of people, like myself, don't want to lose a strategy game due to pure chance.
 

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Old February 28th, 2011, 01:27 PM   #18: [Thread] [Post]
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Would you mind posting it when you think you have it figured out? I think it'd be interesting to see. (The algorithm, that is.)
 
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Old February 28th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #19: [Thread] [Post]
Mike^2
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Will do! If it helps, my idea has to be finalized or rejected by around March 15th. If it gets rejected, this project will probably go on the back burner while I take care of an actual discrete project.
 

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Old March 5th, 2011, 09:04 PM   #20: [Thread] [Post]
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Ok, I have an algorithm, and this project has been approved by my teacher! I have to play with it, but here is my general idea. Note, this particular algorithm only shows guessing when there are absolutely no other safe moves. Finding guesses in a subset of the puzzle that is disjount from other parts would take more work, so that can be done in the future.

Construct a matrix in the following manner:
1. The rows of the matrix represent all unsatisfied clues currently showing. A clue is satisfied when the correct number of mines are flagged and all other blank squares have been revealed.
2. The columns of the matrix represent all blank squares bordering all unsatisfied clues.
3. A 1 is placed in the row of a clue and column of a blank square if that clue is counting that blank square. A 0 is placed otherwise.
4. To the right of the matrix, show the number of mines remaining for each clue. This is found by taking the clue's value and subtracting off the number of mines.

Now, using this matrix, follow the following algorithm:
1. Check the flags for accuracy. If a person has made a mistake, the program will not bother looking for guesses. This will also prevent the number of mines to the right of the matrix from being negative.
2. Look for 0 mines in a row. This would indicate that a person has flagged enough mines but has not revealed remaining clues, so no guess.
3. Find the row sums. If any row sums are equal to the number of mines, then the 1's are the mines. This is the same as the remaining number of mines being your blank squares around, so these could be flagged. No guess.
4. This is the weird part. First, note that no two clues can share more than 4 blank squares. Now, we search through the matrix and "pair" up 1's that exist in the same column for 2 different rows. This needs some improvement in how to do it more precisely, but we basically pair up rows whose clues share the same positions in 2-4 places. Depending on the number of mines remaining, this gives us at least one mine within those positions, so we decrement the number of mines remaining. If one of these then reaches 0:
a) If there are 1's remaining in that row, then these are blank spots with no mines in them that could be clicked. No guess.
b) If there are no remaining 1's in that row, then this row requires a guess. If all rows require a guess, then this is our guess necessary. It highlights the guess spots, and wherever the user clicks next, the mine is moved to the other spot within the pairing if necessary.

So, what do you guys think?

Edit: I'll have to think about these pairings a little bit more, because I need rows going to zero.

Quote Mike^2 edited at 09:15 PM (March 5th, 2011)
 

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Old March 7th, 2011, 08:50 AM   #21: [Thread] [Post]
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Well #4 is going to be the hard part of the algorithm. You still need to get that figured out.
 
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:33 PM   #22: [Thread] [Post]
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Right. I've got the matrix displaying pretty well, though I have a couple more things to add so I can verify, and then I'll be working on the remainder of the algorithm.
 

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Old March 11th, 2011, 09:32 AM   #23: [Thread] [Post]
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I figured out how to do components so as to determine the guessing before the entire matrix is guesswork. It's actually pretty obvious, so I don't know why I didn't think of it. The matrix will have a submatrix that has 0's above, below, and on both sides, hence isolated.

Also, I came up with a situation that throws my current thoughts about pairings a little deeper. I'll have to look at what numbers could appear around this that makes this have the issue I'm thinking about, but consider this:

O = unchecked square
X = stuff that would need to be filled in but is not for this example

XXOX
XXO1
X3OX
OOOX


The unchecked squares in the (1,2) and (2,2) positions (starting at 0) would be paired up, but there is no guarantee of a mine there. I think I can configure the remaining numbers to make this problem definitely occur, so this is still considered in my pairings. I'll probably have to look at how many mines could possibly be in each pairing and come up with a deeper way to analyze it.
 

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Old March 21st, 2011, 07:53 PM   #24: [Thread] [Post]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat View Post
Same thing with the "stuck detection". Simply point out a 0 square to click on, instead of rearranging the whole thing.
I don't like this idea. In this situation, I prefer Mike^2's original solution, as I would want to start the rest of the board from wherever I want instead of being forced to continue at a single predetermined location.
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Old August 20th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #25: [Thread] [Post]
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Opensource using the GPLv3 license?

Also maybe a linux port?

Quote adrenalin6 edited at 12:53 PM (August 20th, 2011) (Reason: Multi-Post)

 
Old August 21st, 2011, 09:28 AM   #26: [Thread] [Post]
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The what license? I could google it, but perhaps you could explain what you would like specifically out of that. I wasn't planning on making it open source and don't know how to program for linux, but I could work on it. Thing is, I put a lot of work into the mathematics of it, so I would always like my name attached to it. The program has been on halt since last May due to painting a whole house and then those huge exams that are still hanging over my head.
 

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Old August 21st, 2011, 01:13 PM   #27: [Thread] [Post]
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Originally Posted by Mike^2 View Post
The what license? I could google it, but perhaps you could explain what you would like specifically out of that. I wasn't planning on making it open source and don't know how to program for linux, but I could work on it. Thing is, I put a lot of work into the mathematics of it, so I would always like my name attached to it. The program has been on halt since last May due to painting a whole house and then those huge exams that are still hanging over my head.
Well for the linux port, it depends what language you're programming in.
If it is .NET, we linux user's could use Mono
Quote:
Wikipedia:
The stated purpose of Mono is not only to be able to run Microsoft .NET applications cross-platform, but also to bring better development tools to Linux developers.[3] Mono can be run on Android, BSD, iOS, Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, Solaris, and Unix operating systems as well as some game console operating systems such as the ones for the PlayStation 3, Wii, and Xbox 360.
or just use the source and start compiling it ourselves for linux?

GPL v3 license if for open source software.
It's easier to read the wikipedia article on GNU General Public License.
But here is some quotes!

Wiki quote:
Quote:
The GNU General Public License (GNU GPL or simply GPL) is the most widely used[5] free software license, originally written by Richard Stallman for the GNU project.

The GPL is the first copyleft license for general use, which means that derived works can only be distributed under the same license terms. Under this philosophy, the GPL grants the recipients of a computer program the rights of the free software definition and uses copyleft to ensure the freedoms are preserved, even when the work is changed or added to. This is in distinction to permissive free software licenses, of which the BSD licenses are the standard examples.

The text of the GPL is not itself under the GPL. The license's copyright disallows modification of the license. Copying and distributing the license is allowed since the GPL requires recipients get "a copy of this License along with the Program".[6] According to the GPL FAQ, anyone can make a new license using a modified version of the GPL as long as he or she uses a different name for the license, does not mention "GNU", and removes the preamble, though the preamble can be used in a modified license if permission to use it is obtained from the Free Software Foundation (FSF).
V3:
Quote:
In late 2005, the Free Software Foundation (FSF) announced work on version 3 of the GPL (GPLv3). On January 16, 2006, the first "discussion draft" of GPLv3 was published, and the public consultation began. The public consultation was originally planned for nine to fifteen months but finally stretched to eighteen months with four drafts being published. The official GPLv3 was released by FSF on June 29, 2007. GPLv3 was written by Richard Stallman, with legal counsel from Eben Moglen and Software Freedom Law Center.[19]

According to Stallman, the most important changes are in relation to software patents, free software license compatibility, the definition of "source code", and hardware restrictions on software modification ("tivoization").[19][20] Other changes relate to internationalization, how license violations are handled, and how additional permissions can be granted by the copyright holder.

Other notable changes include allowing authors to add certain conditions or requirements to their contributions. One of those new optional requirements, sometimes referred to as the Affero clause, is intended to fulfill a request regarding software as a service; adding this clause produces the GNU Affero General Public License version 3.

It also adds a provision that 'strips' DRM of its legal value, so people can break the DRM on GPL software without breaking laws like the DMCA.[21]

The public consultation process was coordinated by the Free Software Foundation with assistance from Software Freedom Law Center, Free Software Foundation Europe,[22] and other free software groups. Comments were collected from the public via the gplv3.fsf.org web portal.[23] That portal runs purpose-written software called stet. These comments were passed to four committees comprising approximately 130 people, including supporters and detractors of FSF's goals. Those committees researched the comments submitted by the public and passed their summaries to Stallman for a decision on what the license would do.

During the public consultation process, 962 comments were submitted for the first draft.[24] By the end, a total of 2,636 comments had been submitted.[25][26][27]

The third draft was released on March 28, 2007.[28] This draft included language intended to prevent patent cross-licenses like the controversial Microsoft-Novell patent agreement and restricts the anti-tivoization clauses to a legal definition of a "User" or "consumer product". It also explicitly removed the section on "Geographical Limitations", whose probable removal had been announced at the launch of the public consultation.

The fourth discussion draft,[29] which was the last, was released on May 31, 2007. It introduced Apache License compatibility, clarified the role of outside contractors, and made an exception to avoid the perceived problems of a Microsoft–Novell style agreement, saying in section 11 paragraph 6 that

You may not convey a covered work if you are a party to an arrangement with a third party that is in the business of distributing software, under which you make payment to the third party based on the extent of your activity of conveying the work, and under which the third party grants, to any of the parties who would receive the covered work from you, a discriminatory patent license [...]

This aims to make future such deals ineffective. The license is also meant to cause Microsoft to extend the patent licenses it grants to Novell customers for the use of GPLv3 software to all users of that GPLv3 software; this is possible only if Microsoft is legally a "conveyor" of the GPLv3 software.
I hope my answer helped

 
Old August 21st, 2011, 03:31 PM   #28: [Thread] [Post]
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+2 vs. Chaotic Evil
Wow, that seems like a whole lot of red tape. Now I remember why I never want to be a politician or a lawyer haha. I'll see what I can figure out, though the project is still on a pretty big hold, probably for the whole semester.

It's being programmed in Visual Basic.NET 2008 (I think the year is right, maybe 2010).
 

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Old April 29th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #29: [Thread] [Post]
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