The worst thing that happened to music

[xxSlipknotxx]

Was Jerry Only.

Thoughts CD?

[Civil Disobedient]

Considering I once wore a Devilock non-ironically, I'm going to say 'no'.

Besides, that German band with the boy-girl singer (Tokyo Hotel?) are far worse.

[xxSlipknotxx]

Haha...devillocks

Misfits with Danzig = awesome
Misfits with no Danzing and Jerry Only trying to convey the Danzing = failure

[The_virus]

The worst thing to happen to music was the "Grunge" spread in Vanity Fair magazine. It marked a turn for the worse, when the music became a consumer product.

"When commerce is involved, everything changes." ~ Eddie Vedder

[xxSlipknotxx]

i thought that the worst thing involving grunge was people liking it?

[Dan]

Commercialism practically means that every one is going to like it, at least in this situation.

[blitz]

Insane Clown Posse. Enough said.

[lk6.200]

Insane Clown Posse. Enough said.

I wholly second that motion.

[The_virus]

i thought that the worst thing involving grunge was people liking it?

That's the paradox. The majority of the Seattle scene were just friends killing time. When the media ran with the 'grunge' idea, the bands just started to f**k with journalists and see what ridiculous things they could get printed without the reporters checking facts first.

Nevermind was originally titled "Sheep" in reference to who the band figured would buy the album.

Grunge's popularity is a case study in media hype; a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yet the rabid Generation X fanbase still burns strong. The "do more with less" beginnings of the scene are still endearing. There have since been efforts with as many as thrice the manpower, which fall so much shorter.

As for Insane Clown Posse, any band who's visual style is recognizable before their music is, belongs in silent cinema. It's more suited to their efforts.

[lk6.200]

As for Insane Clown Posse, any band who's visual style is recognizable before their music is, belongs in silent cinema. It's more suited to their efforts.


The exceptions being Gwar and Lordi, of course.

[Bird Flu]

Anything involving the Insane Clown Posse is the worst thing to happen to music.

Agreed that Jerry Only trying to convey what Danzig and even Michale Graves did is FAIL.

[coheed]

That's the paradox. The majority of the Seattle scene were just friends killing time. When the media ran with the 'grunge' idea, the bands just started to f**k with journalists and see what ridiculous things they could get printed without the reporters checking facts first.

Nevermind was originally titled "Sheep" in reference to who the band figured would buy the album.

Grunge's popularity is a case study in media hype; a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yet the rabid Generation X fanbase still burns strong. The "do more with less" beginnings of the scene are still endearing. There have since been efforts with as many as thrice the manpower, which fall so much shorter.

As for Insane Clown Posse, any band who's visual style is recognizable before their music is, belongs in silent cinema. It's more suited to their efforts.
Great post.

[Conscience]

Grunge's popularity is a case study in media hype; a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yet the rabid Generation X fanbase still burns strong.
I didn't grow up with grunge, and I find it good. I had nothing to do with the media back then, and since I'm Gen Y I can say I like grunge for what it is.

[The_virus]

I didn't grow up with grunge, and I find it good. I had nothing to do with the media back then, and since I'm Gen Y I can say I like grunge for what it is.

I'd never suggest music is one of those "you had to be there" deals. Classic Rock wouldn't have new fans if that were true. I was just pointing out that Grunge is one of the symbols of Generation X, and that the original fanbase for the genre has not waned.

Grunge's level of exposure and popularity would never have been possible without the media building it up though. After the fact, the popularity is a different sort.

[Forgotten]

The thing that was simultaneously the best and worst thing that happened to music was Guitar Hero.

I admit it's fun and addicting, but it's a double-edged sword. It was the best thing that happened to rock music because people realized that there was this genre out there that wasn't rap or pop. But it's also the worst thing because any song that is on there from GH2 and on is instantly a "classic" and people play the true classics (like Sweet Child O Mine, to name one) ad nauseum.

Also, most people who play GH or Rock band think they can play guitar or drums to those songs. That just bugs me because I actually can play guitar and drums, and GH or RB is nothing like the real thing.

[xxSlipknotxx]

Anything involving the Insane Clown Posse is the worst thing to happen to music.

Agreed that Jerry Only trying to convey what Danzig and even Michale Graves did is FAIL.

This guy understands the true point of the thread.

[One Of Light]

IMHO the worst thing that ever happened to music was either Nirvana becoming "the next big thing" or the murder of John Lennon (considering that the Beatles would've possibly reconsiled after that)
I'm not gonna "hate on" the whole Grunge movement, it brought us some amazing artists, however the whole attitude and scene surrounding its current hangers-on is a bit horrible as well.

[Dan]

The Beatles would've never reformed. Each member (well Paul and John) was far too musically different from any of the others and had too much of an ego.

[Whale Biologist]

The Beatles would've never reformed. Each member (well Paul and John) was far too musically different from any of the others and had too much of an ego.

I think they would have played together. I don't know if they would have put new music out, but I could see a reunion show or a reunion tour being done since they could actually play live music again.

I think digital distribution is the worst thing to happen to music because of illegal downloading slowing down music sales.

Games like Guitar Hero and Rockband have helped keep the music industry going though.

[The_virus]

I think digital distribution is the worst thing to happen to music because of illegal downloading slowing down music sales.

I disagree entirely. While I'd never support musicians not getting the credit or financial support they earn, taking the retail and physical production costs out of the loop was inevitable. Napster opened the floodgates, but really all it did was expose an obsolete distribution system.

As consumers find themselves using computers for more and more tasks, it's just natural that their leisure activities such as music-listening follow suit. It also allows small-scale artists to release their material to potentially millions of listeners, without having to go through a distributor. Just look at the technology people carry around: radios, laptops, cellphones, mp3 players... If you ignore mp3 players for a second, you'll see that very little of the technology average consumers use on a daily basis have a way to play CDs. Laptops can, but then you've got a bulky CD wallet that is counter-intuitive to the whole 'portable' idea. Nothing replaces some interesting packaging and cover art, so CDs do still have their place. Home theatres are still well-suited to CDs and other formats like vinyl. You can't fault an invention for changing the consumer market. If something integrates more ideas, or streamlines a delivery process, isn't it up to media companies to figure out how to adapt, rather than smother a progressive change?

Media evolves, that's just how it works. Printed newspapers, and especially periodicals have to print their 'news' knowing that the information may be outdated by the time readers can see it. They react by including more long-term commentary. Instead of focusing on what's happening now, they comment on where things are going, or where it all came from. Editorials, political analysis, biographies, etc. are all taking larger portions of what used to be simply a list of "what's going on". Radio didn't kill printed news, and video didn't quite kill the radio star. Digital distribution could be interpreted as the next hurdle for media. The question at every junction is "how to we make money NOW?". All that's ever been raised is issues over money. No one ever complains that digital distribution prevents artists from being creative.

[Jofish]

Worse thing to happen to music? Autotune (with the exception of I'm On A boat, respectively) seriously. When my iPod is dead and I don't have any CDs to listen to I'll hit the radio. Recently our Modern rock station turned to a pop station and I swear every Rap/R&B song sounds the same.

[Fire King]

The worst thing to happen to music, eh? I like this one.

There were a few candidates that didn't make the cut for me, such as the rise of "metal" (please note the quotes) and bands like Metallica or Megadeth, but I'm not going with that because it's too much of a personal opinion.

I'm going with Kidz Bop. There is absolutely nothing else that comes close to how bad Kidz Bop is for music. I can't imagine anyone who would actually want that mindless trash, and a bunch of good songs are made bad, and bad songs made worse.

And you have to think of the poor kids singing! I wonder what waking up every morning is like for them. I feel for their souls, which may or may not exist anymore, sadly.

[One Of Light]

The Beatles would've never reformed. Each member (well Paul and John) was far too musically different from any of the others and had too much of an ego.

it's been said by both Paul McCartney AND George Harrison(before his death) that they had been in contact within a week of John's assassination, and that the night they were offered a million dollars by SNL to play, that John and Paul were BOTH on the streets of NY that night... and almost showed.
I personally feel they would've at LEAST played one more show:-)
but imagine another Beatles record at that time... the music they were writing...

[xxSlipknotxx]

The worst thing to happen to music, eh? I like this one.

There were a few candidates that didn't make the cut for me, such as the rise of "metal" (please note the quotes) and bands like Metallica or Megadeth, but I'm not going with that because it's too much of a personal opinion.

I'm going with Kidz Bop. There is absolutely nothing else that comes close to how bad Kidz Bop is for music. I can't imagine anyone who would actually want that mindless trash, and a bunch of good songs are made bad, and bad songs made worse.

And you have to think of the poor kids singing! I wonder what waking up every morning is like for them. I feel for their souls, which may or may not exist anymore, sadly.

Its common knowledge that Metallica sucks

[TD, Jr.]

I'm surprised no one here has said Soulja Boy.

[Jofish]

Soulja Boy isn't music thus cannot be qualified as the worse thing to happen to music.

Soulja Boy is more like musical AIDS.

[Conscience]

I hate the "artists" (I use the term loosely) who refer to themselves using their own name during the track.

[asterisk]

The worst thing for me is... stars? The selling of an image over a message? The profitability of propping up marketable people with inferior talent? I don't know how to say it concisely, but the idea is this: an artist with the right looks becoming popular for having the right production while singing another's lyrics but receiving most of the credit.

I can't pin this down to any particular moment in music's history and I'm pretty sure this has been happening for forever in every industry anyway, but it's that the image of a pop star gets the majority of the credit while the majority of the work is done by others.

Worse thing to happen to music? Autotune (with the exception of I'm On A boat, respectively) seriously.

You're not using "respectively" correctly. Just wanted to let you know that.

[Mrmakee]

[QUOTE=asterisk;8058528]I can't pin this down to any particular moment in music's history and I'm pretty sure this has been happening for forever in every industry anyway,[QUOTE]

I'm also sure that saying "for forever" is wrong.

Personally I think artists teaming up and having about 12 artists in one song is one of the worst things to happen to music. I saw my friend listening to a song with about 10 artists in it. Half of them would only be saying "Yeah!" occaisionally in the song.

[One Of Light]

it could be said that the worst thing to happen to music is the music business... because the second some guy in a suit looked around and realized there was money to be made... that was the day that it became nigh impossible to make it on musical talent alone... for the most part anyway... so maybe that's the worst thing to ever happen to music... that or hip hop/rap.

[Dan]

Bullsh*t ^. The music business has always existed. Hell, look at bands like The Beatles, Led Zeppelin etc. All of them were driven by a manager who worked to make them the most money. I've heard (don't rely on this being true, its just something random I remember from somewhere) that The Beatles were nothing like the good boy image they had (which I would agree with to an extent) and only adopted it for the money.

[Fire King]

it could be said that the worst thing to happen to music is the music business... because the second some guy in a suit looked around and realized there was money to be made... that was the day that it became nigh impossible to make it on musical talent alone... for the most part anyway... so maybe that's the worst thing to ever happen to music...

It sounds to me like you're basing that opinion solely on the recent rise in musical artists breaking ties with their labels. Although I see where you are coming from, without "the music business," as you generalize it, it would be exponentially more difficult for what little "good music" there may be to get to the end user.

Also cut down on the ellipses, dude. I really hope you don't awkwardly pause like that in real life.

that or hip hop/rap.

I really truly wish people would stop hating on "hip-hop/rap." I used to be like this, and it breaks my heart each time I see someone anew. First off, they're not even the same thing. Secondly, I hesitate to call it the worst thing to happen to music. We wouldn't be where we are in music today without Run-DMC mixing up Walk This Way. What about Straight Outta Compton? Public Enemy? Rapper's Delight? And when it comes to rap? Jay-Z is a lyrical genius, as is Lil Wayne and Kanye West. Sure, they might not be the best people, but they're brilliant musicians. They don't win Grammys for being bad musicians. The list of the good far outweighs the bad.

You have to remember that a great number of big names from 90s hip-hop have chastized Soulja Boy and those similar to him.

Also, it could help if you backed up that opinion. Going around saying rap is Retards Attempting Poetry with nothing else to back it up is not the best way to handle things.

[One Of Light]

the problem with Rap is that it seemingly makes musicians, and their talents, obsolete. I'm not going to knock the rappers themselves, it truly is poetry (in some cases anyway) set to a beat. Be that as it may... I don't like it, and I don't have to defend that opinion.

and love or hate artists like Metallica, they got their music out there with little or NO help from the business - anyone remember the days when you simply recorded a band live? of course not, that's illegal now... as is most music sharing that actually meant something... the entire legal angle of music was shaped by people like David Geffen...
why else would someone like Tom Petty have to SUE his record label for the rights to his OWN MUSIC?

I could go on about the evils of the music business, but there's no point...

[Demikain]

the problem with Rap is that it seemingly makes musicians, and their talents, obsolete.
In what way? You seem to think that playing instruments and singing somehow requires more talent than rapping, which is just false. It is just as difficult to make a good rap song as it is to make a good song of any other genre.

[One Of Light]

In what way? You seem to think that playing instruments and singing somehow requires more talent than rapping, which is just false. It is just as difficult to make a good rap song as it is to make a good song of any other genre.

not in today's recording technology... most producers, especially in the hip hop/rap markets, have a package of generic beats, most produced with drum machines and the like, as well as synth and other instrumental packages... "studio musicians," such as greats like Jim Keltner, Billy Preston, Danny Kortchmar, Klaus Voorman, and others, who made their careers providing an instrument for other artists (one thing that links ALL of these guys - they all recorded with at least one Beatle, either together or in their solo careers)
and as someone who has produced local talent, both in the rap and rock worlds, I know where I saw more talent, though arguably not more intellect in lyrics... I'll give the rap world credit for some intense and intellgent lyrics, though they're hard to find...
but when it comes to the music, almost anyone can put together a rap/hip hop beat...
it's only some of the artists... the Neptunes, Roots, Outkast, and a few others among the bigger names, that actually pay attention to the instrumentation beyond a few loops here and there, and heavily packaged overdub beats... and I'm a complete stranger to the so-called underground hip hop movement... I'll admit it... but the rap that is making it into, and actually redefining the mainstream, is not underground in the least, now is it?

I'll admit, I'm biased... My parents had me listening to the Beatles and Pink Floyd before I was out of the INCUBATOR (I was born 2 months premature, thus the incubator reference)... my first show was Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers at age 8... and I've seen an ecclectic mix of artists since, so... maybe I'm a bit off...

Bullsh*t ^. The music business has always existed. Hell, look at bands like The Beatles, Led Zeppelin etc. All of them were driven by a manager who worked to make them the most money. I've heard (don't rely on this being true, its just something random I remember from somewhere) that The Beatles were nothing like the good boy image they had (which I would agree with to an extent) and only adopted it for the money.

and btw, the Beatles original image, which they copied from the bands they liked in Liverpool as kids, was a rougher, leather and hair grease, type of image... they perfected it in their days playing clubs in Hamburg and other areas...
however I must observe that the music business didn't "always exist," in fact, the entire music business as it exists NOW formed in response to the mass media explosion that was Elvis Presley...
and even then, artists like Jimi Hendrix had 2, sometimes 3 different contracts in different areas; how else did we wind up with a conflict over Hendrix's recording rights between his family stateside, who held a contract from a Seatlle based company, and his ex-manager, who said his contract was through his holding company out of the Bahamas (i.e. when it wasn't renewed in a timely manner, the Commonwealth of the Bahamas actually defaulted the rights into its own possession)
that didn't happen in the period immediately preceding Elvis/the Beatles..
of course it REALLY exploded in the late 70's and 80's, between the label creation of disco and the accompanying trend, and the integration of large quantites of individual labels into some of the giants we know and hate today.

[Demikain]

Note that I said "a good rap song". Sure, many rappers use generic loops and beats but they are generally not very good. Good hip-hop pays a lot of attention to all of the music, lyrics and flow.

And it is unfair to say that because an artist uses a drum machine or lots of samples, that they are less talented than someone who plays an instrument. Use of instruments is still rather formulaic - most rock music is just a fairly simple chord progression and then melodies up and down a scale. That doesn't hinder rock musicians from making good music, in the same way that using samples and drum machines doesn't stop hip-hop artists from making good music. It is not about how the song is made, but how the song sounds when it is finished. I don't care if some rapper used pre-packaged beats and samples for the instrumentation on his song; if it sounds great then who gives a sh*t?

You admit you're a stranger to the "underground hip-hop movement", so why not give some of it a listen before you slam an entire genre based on mainstream representation? Here's a newsflash, most mainstream music sucks. Dig deeper and you might find something you really like.

[One Of Light]

Note that I said "a good rap song". Sure, many rappers use generic loops and beats but they are generally not very good. Good hip-hop pays a lot of attention to all of the music, lyrics and flow.

And it is unfair to say that because an artist uses a drum machine or lots of samples, that they are less talented than someone who plays an instrument. Use of instruments is still rather formulaic - most rock music is just a fairly simple chord progression and then melodies up and down a scale. That doesn't hinder rock musicians from making good music, in the same way that using samples and drum machines doesn't stop hip-hop artists from making good music. It is not about how the song is made, but how the song sounds when it is finished. I don't care if some rapper used pre-packaged beats and samples for the instrumentation on his song; if it sounds great then who gives a sh*t?

You admit you're a stranger to the "underground hip-hop movement", so why not give some of it a listen before you slam an entire genre based on mainstream representation? Here's a newsflash, most mainstream music sucks. Dig deeper and you might find something you really like.

and this has what bearing on my original statement - that the onset of rap and hip hop has largely made musicians, and the unique set of talents they bring to the table, obsolete?

believe me, I know this isn't the late 60's/early 70's anymore, when true musical talent reigned supreme within the mainstream...

the point is - that prepackaged beats and samples destroy a degree of artistic expression (though they might replace it with another, seeing as how that's not my style of music I couldn't say), that thrill of creating a great hook or riff, the feeling when you're really on fire, and everything works within the scale or mode you're playing in... people who use the machines, all they have to do, in EXTREME cases, is select a key and a melodic device and they have their little inventory of sounds to loop, sample, and mix (which might require a basic knowledge of music theory, but usually doesn't)... why else are rappers sampling classic songs, everything from "Dream On" to "Crazy Train?" I will say that it's true, great producers and rappers typically pay attention to the flow of the music, but could they tell you much ABOUT the flow of the music? and if not, how are they any different than the oft-criticized "boy bands" of lore... apart from lyrical credits.

At this point I suggest we agree to disagree, simply because we have different perspectives on hip hop, and the artists in general... however I enjoy a spirited debate... :-)

[Demikain]

and this has what bearing on my original statement - that the onset of rap and hip hop has largely made musicians, and the unique set of talents they bring to the table, obsolete?

believe me, I know this isn't the late 60's/early 70's anymore, when true musical talent reigned supreme within the mainstream...

the point is - that prepackaged beats and samples destroy a degree of artistic expression (though they might replace it with another, seeing as how that's not my style of music I couldn't say), that thrill of creating a great hook or riff, the feeling when you're really on fire, and everything works within the scale or mode you're playing in... people who use the machines, all they have to do, in EXTREME cases, is select a key and a melodic device and they have their little inventory of sounds to loop, sample, and mix (which might require a basic knowledge of music theory, but usually doesn't)... why else are rappers sampling classic songs, everything from "Dream On" to "Crazy Train?" I will say that it's true, great producers and rappers typically pay attention to the flow of the music, but could they tell you much ABOUT the flow of the music? and if not, how are they any different than the oft-criticized "boy bands" of lore... apart from lyrical credits.

At this point I suggest we agree to disagree, simply because we have different perspectives on hip hop, and the artists in general... however I enjoy a spirited debate... :-)
I was actually mostly arguing about the 'pre-packaged beats' thing because you brought it up and I like playing devil's advocate. My favourite hip-hop is not like that, and is much more centred around musicians writing pretty experimental music using all kinds of instruments as well as using computers and samples to create a backdrop for their rapping. I'm not really a fan of artists that only use loops and pre-packaged beats either, but there is a lot more to hip-hop than that.

But I still don't agree that any kind of hip-hop has made anybody obsolete, it has merely brought more to the table.

[Conscience]

Outkast's "Hey Ya" comes to mind as a good hip hop song. Every single person I know likes that song, even my parents.

[One Of Light]

I was actually mostly arguing about the 'pre-packaged beats' thing because you brought it up and I like playing devil's advocate. My favourite hip-hop is not like that, and is much more centred around musicians writing pretty experimental music using all kinds of instruments as well as using computers and samples to create a backdrop for their rapping. I'm not really a fan of artists that only use loops and pre-packaged beats either, but there is a lot more to hip-hop than that.

But I still don't agree that any kind of hip-hop has made anybody obsolete, it has merely brought more to the table.

and when you make a statement like that, i can at least partially agree with you... since you share my disdain for prepackaged crap lol.
I'm a fan of the Roots...
and yes, I LOVE OutKast... I've loved them every since I heard that organ on "Bombs Over Baghdad" for the first time, back in High School lol...
my mom LOVED "Hey Ya!" when it came out... then got burned out on it due to overplaying lol.

In my humble opinion, the prepackaged, canned music is an attempt by the industry to, shall I say, reinforce their take on the product; cut out the middleman - i.e. the band that plays the backing music for their prepackaged "artists" (and I use that term LOOSELY) - so that they can make more profit on the "music" at large (again, loose use of that term)

[Demikain]

Outkast's "Hey Ya" comes to mind as a good hip hop song. Every single person I know likes that song, even my parents.
Yeah, Outkast are one of the better hip-hop groups that are massively popular. The time signature in Hey Ya alone is more complex than anything in hours of material from some rappers.

[Dan]

It wasn't that complex. It was just a bunch of 4/4 bars and then one or two 2/4 bars in the chorus.

Admittedly that is a lot more complex than a majority of the mainstream.

[Conscience]

I'm also not a big fan of the crappy remixes that add in really famous artists and then package it as a beat-heavy, computer synthesized piece of crap. *****cat Dolls collaborating with A. Rahman to make the new Jai Ho is one of the worst things I've ever heard.

EDIT: What's up with the censors?

[One Of Light]

yeah that really irritated me as well...

[Dan]

Now, now, not all electronic music is necessarily band. Artists like Amon Tobin who make use of almost entirely sampling can make incredibly interesting soundscapes. On the contrary, most of the remixes that do make it to the mainstream stations do seem to be bad.

Who was it that sampled You Spin Me Round by Dead Or Alive, because, for God's sake, they made an already annoying (albeit somewhat catchy) song even more annoying, and far less catchy.

[One Of Light]

Now, now, not all electronic music is necessarily band. Artists like Amon Tobin who make use of almost entirely sampling can make incredibly interesting soundscapes. On the contrary, most of the remixes that do make it to the mainstream stations do seem to be bad.

Who was it that sampled You Spin Me Round by Dead Or Alive, because, for God's sake, they made an already annoying (albeit somewhat catchy) song even more annoying, and far less catchy.

I don't remember, but the worst one for me recently was whoever mixed the "numa-numa" song into something else... it literally made me wanna shoot somebody at first.

[Mrmakee]

And the original version didn't want to make you do that?

[The Crowing]

I think the worst thing to happen to music is that there are actually people who think there is a worst thing that happened to music.

[Demikain]

And the original version didn't want to make you do that?
The original is a pretty good song.

[Fire King]

Live Your Life (the aforementioned song that samples Dragostea din tei, the "Numa Numa" song) is actually a decent song too, specifically Rihanna's solo verse at the end. T.I.'s verses aren't as great.

[One Of Light]

And the original version didn't want to make you do that?

nah it was catchy... and made me laugh whenever I thought about the guy in the video.. YOU saw the video, I know it... lol.

[Conscience]

Goddamn, Dragostea Din Tei is one of the best bop-along songs ever. Everybody that owns a computer has heard it, it's great. The English version sucks though.

[Mrmakee]

Yes i saw the video. The song just didn't do it for me. Each to their own i guess.

[Dan]

That wasn't even the official video though.

[Shane]

How do you know what video he watched?

[Dan]

Because the guy (eg singular) in the video is always automatically assumed to be that idiot who dances around. Almost nobody would ever think of the actual video clip.

[Conscience]

Because the guy (eg singular) in the video is always automatically assumed to be that idiot who dances around. Almost nobody would ever think of the actual video clip.
This. That video is for laughs, not for music.

[asterisk]

Who was it that sampled You Spin Me Round by Dead Or Alive, because, for God's sake, they made an already annoying (albeit somewhat catchy) song even more annoying, and far less catchy.

Flo Rida, who also brought us classics like "Low" (apple-bottom jeans, boots with the furrrr) and "In the Ayer".

It's not high culture, but it's great in clubs.

[One Of Light]

Lol that "In The Ayerrr" song was fun for delivering pizza... it made a simple delivery a bit more fun late at night, esp. after the use of certain "enlightening herbs."

[Bird Flu]

Soulja Boy is THE worst thing ever to happen to anything.

[Dan]

Flo Rida, who also brought us classics like "Low" (apple-bottom jeans, boots with the furrrr) and "In the Ayer".

It's not high culture, but it's great in clubs.

Classics? What the f*ck. No one will remember them.

[Technique's Man]

Classics? What the f*ck. No one will remember them.

That was the point, homeboy.

And ya know what? All that hip-hop hate needs to go until people really understand what it was. It was a movement that allowed inner-city youth a chance to express themselves, be it through art (graffiti), dance (breakdancing), or music (the DJ). The DJ was all about creating a unique sound without possessing the training that other music styles often required. Besides, it's not like they could relate to what was going on musically at the time.

With the DJ eventually developed the emcee. And emceeing gradually evolved over these last number of years, beginning with Baambataa. And I mean the list of luminaries is just so vast, I think you can't really trash hip-hop unless you've heard joints from half these guys:

Run-DMC, KRS-One, LL Cool J, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G. Rap, Chuck D (Public Enemy), Masta Ace, Rakim, NWA, Snoop Dogg, Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., Boot Camp Clik, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, Wu-Tang Clan, Onyx, Nas, Jay-Z, Jaz-O, MC Lyte, Queen Latifa (dead serious), Big Pun, Fat Joe, DMX, Jadakiss, Styles P, M.O.P., Mobb Deep, Capone-N-Noreaga, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Eminem, UGK, Kanye West, Fabolous, Ludacris, Young Jeezy, Lupe Fiasco, Chamillionaire, The Game, Lil Wayne... And those don't include underground artists like Crooked I, Royce da 5'9", The Last Emperor, Chino XL, Ras Kass, Immortal Technique, Joell Ortiz, Termanology, Saigon, Joe Budden, Jean Grae, Talib Kweli, Jedi Mind Tricks, Pumpkinhead, Serius Jones, Dead prez, etc.

Basically, hip-hop has brought a unique perspective to music, that penetrates beyond the samples and beefs and drama. That's all I can say.

However, in terms of the actual topic, I'm going to say it's not Autotune, Flo Rida, or Souljaboy. It's not even their forebears in mainstream "pop-rap"--the Southern Crunk-Snap sh*t (D4L, Dem Franchise Boyz, or Unk). I'm going to mark 50 Cent as the worst thing to happen to music.

He made autotune and Souljaboy possible. He made it acceptable to blow up commercially while lacking lyrical talent. Nowadays, when he goes after guys like Wayne or Ross, I just laugh, because he WAS them 6 years ago.

[The_virus]

That was the point, homeboy.

And ya know what? All that hip-hop hate needs to go until people really understand what it was. It was a movement that allowed inner-city youth a chance to express themselves, be it through art (graffiti), dance (breakdancing), or music (the DJ). The DJ was all about creating a unique sound without possessing the training that other music styles often required. Besides, it's not like they could relate to what was going on musically at the time.

Basically, hip-hop has brought a unique perspective to music, that penetrates beyond the samples and beefs and drama. That's all I can say.


I hear that. Making music production accessible, and the whole DIY thing with early rap and hip-hop had it's place.

I think it's easy to see that current mainstream hip-hop is quite removed from the original image it had though. Small upstart companies have become huge, and although they may troll for talent, I'd say they've lost the accessibility image that the scene had originally.

[Technique's Man]

Yeah, exactly. Mainstream 90s hip-hop had very talented dudes who achieved a lot of success (Pac, Biggie, Pun, Nas, Ice Cube, etc.) As easy as it would be to blame the current trends for a problem that has run rampant for a few years now, it's probably better to get to the source of this "pop-rap," which is Fiddy. I was almost tempted to blame Eminem at first (As he said in "White America," he was really the first rapper middle class youth could relate too.) However, that would be neglecting the fact that he really is (or thanks to "Crack a Bottle," was) an insane lyricist.

[lk6.200]

Classics? What the f*ck. No one will remember them.

The word classic also implies that it's a relatively older song. Didn't those just come out within the last 2 years or so?

[Bird Flu]

The word classic also implies that it's a relatively older song. Didn't those just come out within the last 2 years or so?

Not necessarily. People consider The Dark Knight a classic and it came out last year.

[Dan]

I'd assume classic to mean something that will be remembered in a positive way which had a lasting impact on music.

[Demikain]

Honestly, I'm gonna say that probably the worst thing that happened to music was the strict implementation of equal temperament in Western music. Music has been severely limited ever since, and musicians have mostly had to rely on variations of timbre (which has still been pretty rad but it would have been much more interesting if the norm was just intonation)

[mr.rpg king]

i thought that the worst thing involving grunge was people liking it?

Grunge houses the most fulfilling songs ever written. Grunge and Mastodon's Leviathan and Blood Mountain. I'm still working on Crack The Skye.

[xxSlipknotxx]

I don't think a post has ever made me violently ill before. Thank you for that.

[mr.rpg king]

Good troll, Slipknot man.

[Dan]

So an opinion is now a troll?

[Conscience]

Well, he's sort of ridiculing the other guy, so I'd say troll.

[Dan]

That doesn't make him a troll, it makes him opinionated.

Oh wait, this means I'm trolling you too.

[mr.rpg king]

Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

You can easily contradict someone without being provokative. Plus, other people have cited him as a troll. Of course what he said is an opinion, debate is almost all opinion, but unneccesary provokation or lambasting is just idiocracy. And yes, that is also an opinion.

[The_virus]

Can we get this topic back on track? Trolling is no longer an offense under the GW rules one way or the other. If you think someone is just looking to start a fight or get a rise out of you, they haven't broken a rule unless it's a flame (direct insult).

Further discussion of trolling here will be seen as SPAM.

[Fool's Requiem]

The worst thing that happened to music?

Rap. nuff said.

[xxSlipknotxx]

Worst thing that happened to this thread: People making unsubstantiated statements about an entire genre

[lk6.200]

Worst thing that happened to this thread: People making unsubstantiated statements about an entire genre

Rap= retards attempting poetry. Nuff said.

And I believe emo comes in a close second to Requiem's statement.

[Technique's Man]

Rap= retards attempting poetry. Nuff said.

And I believe emo comes in a close second to Requiem's statement.

The worst thing that happened to music?

Rap. nuff said.

Since apparently you all can't read (or don't want to carry an intelligent debate about an intelligent style of music that you somehow disparage as "retarded;" go figure,) it's time to repost the following:

And ya know what? All that hip-hop hate needs to go until people really understand what it was. It was a movement that allowed inner-city youth a chance to express themselves, be it through art (graffiti), dance (breakdancing), or music (the DJ). The DJ was all about creating a unique sound without possessing the training that other music styles often required. Besides, it's not like they could relate to what was going on musically at the time.

With the DJ eventually developed the emcee. And emceeing gradually evolved over these last number of years, beginning with Baambataa. And I mean the list of luminaries is just so vast, I think you can't really trash hip-hop unless you've heard joints from half these guys:

Run-DMC, KRS-One, LL Cool J, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G. Rap, Chuck D (Public Enemy), Masta Ace, Rakim, NWA, Snoop Dogg, Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., Boot Camp Clik, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, Wu-Tang Clan, Onyx, Nas, Jay-Z, Jaz-O, MC Lyte, Queen Latifa (dead serious), Big Pun, Fat Joe, DMX, Jadakiss, Styles P, M.O.P., Mobb Deep, Capone-N-Noreaga, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Eminem, UGK, Kanye West, Fabolous, Ludacris, Young Jeezy, Lupe Fiasco, Chamillionaire, The Game, Lil Wayne... And those don't include underground artists like Crooked I, Royce da 5'9", The Last Emperor, Chino XL, Ras Kass, Immortal Technique, Joell Ortiz, Termanology, Saigon, Joe Budden, Jean Grae, Talib Kweli, Jedi Mind Tricks, Pumpkinhead, Serius Jones, Dead prez, etc.

Basically, hip-hop has brought a unique perspective to music, that penetrates beyond the samples and beefs and drama. That's all I can say.

[Dan]

Don't worry TM, Fool's Requiem and LK are known for the complete and utter ignorance throughout GW.

[blitz]

LK likes Disturbed and Requiem likes Green Day. Their opinions usually are not taken seriously.

[Technique's Man]

Don't worry TM, Fool's Requiem and LK are known for the complete and utter ignorance throughout GW.

Heh, I'm rather aware of LK's ignorance in particular. Sometimes, I just get the feeling if I ram a lotta knowledge down their throats, if they go to gag it up, a little bit will remain in their bellies.


Here's hoping.

[Dean]

I would probably have to say auto-tune is one of the worst things to happen to music, specifically pop/hip hop, as it poisons the whole genre. It's not like MAJOR DEATH BLOW or anything, but yeah, it takes some of the talent out.

Outside of that, I actually think technological innovation has done more to harm than help music overall. You no longer have to play an instrument or have a good singing voice to actually get ahead in the music business. Then again, it's as much society's fault for eating up this garbage as it is the artists who use the devices to simulate good singing or music.

It's not just hip hop, but pop, rock, metal, all genres are pretty much affected.

So yeah, I can't say one artist ruined music, but a collection of artists relying on technology and a lack of talent, yet somehow getting popular.

[xxSlipknotxx]

Heh, I'm rather aware of LK's ignorance in particular. Sometimes, I just get the feeling if I ram a lotta knowledge down their throats, if they go to gag it up, a little bit will remain in their bellies.


Here's hoping.

There's a reason why I've been banned who knows how many times. Eventually you give up and end up calling them a variation of a ****ing idiot and you're amazed at the fact his parents haven't abandoned him yet.

****ing exams, probably means another weekish that I can't make fun of bands

[mr.rpg king]

Since apparently you all can't read (or don't want to carry an intelligent debate about an intelligent style of music that you somehow disparage as "retarded;" go figure,) it's time to repost the following:

And ya know what? All that hip-hop hate needs to go until people really understand what it was. It was a movement that allowed inner-city youth a chance to express themselves, be it through art (graffiti), dance (breakdancing), or music (the DJ). The DJ was all about creating a unique sound without possessing the training that other music styles often required. Besides, it's not like they could relate to what was going on musically at the time.

With the DJ eventually developed the emcee. And emceeing gradually evolved over these last number of years, beginning with Baambataa. And I mean the list of luminaries is just so vast, I think you can't really trash hip-hop unless you've heard joints from half these guys:

Run-DMC, KRS-One, LL Cool J, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G. Rap, Chuck D (Public Enemy), Masta Ace, Rakim, NWA, Snoop Dogg, Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., Boot Camp Clik, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, Wu-Tang Clan, Onyx, Nas, Jay-Z, Jaz-O, MC Lyte, Queen Latifa (dead serious), Big Pun, Fat Joe, DMX, Jadakiss, Styles P, M.O.P., Mobb Deep, Capone-N-Noreaga, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Eminem, UGK, Kanye West, Fabolous, Ludacris, Young Jeezy, Lupe Fiasco, Chamillionaire, The Game, Lil Wayne... And those don't include underground artists like Crooked I, Royce da 5'9", The Last Emperor, Chino XL, Ras Kass, Immortal Technique, Joell Ortiz, Termanology, Saigon, Joe Budden, Jean Grae, Talib Kweli, Jedi Mind Tricks, Pumpkinhead, Serius Jones, Dead prez, etc.

Basically, hip-hop has brought a unique perspective to music, that penetrates beyond the samples and beefs and drama. That's all I can say.

I like rap and I like intelligent debate.

I downloaded Immortal Technique's Revolution 1 & 2 and here's what I think. He has incredibly intelligent lyrics and topics in his song content, but the thing is is that none of his beats seem to be very catchy. Like an example, "Saturday" by Ludacris has three loud repitions of bass that make the song carry on well, and the way he twists his vocals several times in the song (In Decauteeer, were we pack that heat; In the back door: ***** What?) keeps the song interesting and make it unique. And of course there's the "Oooooh, Ooooh" part that has a very pleasing sound as well. But all of IT's songs that I heard didn't really have any points that made me want to keep listening for extended periods.

Any recommendations in particular?

[Technique's Man]

I like rap and I like intelligent debate.

I downloaded Immortal Technique's Revolution 1 & 2 and here's what I think. He has incredibly intelligent lyrics and topics in his song content, but the thing is is that none of his beats seem to be very catchy. Like an example, "Saturday" by Ludacris has three loud repitions of bass that make the song carry on well, and the way he twists his vocals several times in the song (In Decauteeer, were we pack that heat; In the back door: ***** What?) keeps the song interesting and make it unique. And of course there's the "Oooooh, Ooooh" part that has a very pleasing sound as well. But all of IT's songs that I heard didn't really have any points that made me want to keep listening for extended periods.

Any recommendations in particular?

One of the things to keep in mind with Technique is that he is a message lyricist. Which means he has incredible lyrics (punchlines, wordplay, rhyme scheme, etc.), but also, all of them have some meaning, and his songs have a clearly defined purpose. So people are usually drawn in by certain lines he's said, and repeat those; for example, off "Industrial Revolution," there is the near-legendary, "If you go platinum, it's got nothin to do with luck; it just means that a million people are stupid as f*ck." I'm always repeating that somewhere.

Personally, the beats on Volume 1 had this grittiness to them that made them enjoyable, and they accompanied his lyrics well; albeit, I can see people viewing them as drab and simplistic. Volume 2 had better beats and a more polished sound, and I thought "Point of No Return," "Obnoxious," and even "Freedom of Speech" had 'catchy' beats.

But uh, there is the third album of his, which released last summer; The Third World. That has beats from DJ Green Lantern, and I wouldn't be surprised if you like this one a lot more. In particular, songs like "Lick Shots," "Death March," and "The Third World," are incredible.

And if you haven't heard "Bin Laden," you might like that one. Of course, it is very political in subject matter.

[Dan]

LK likes Disturbed and Requiem likes Green Day. Their opinions usually are not taken seriously.

As much as those bands suck, any justifiable opinion is worth taking into consideration. As such, it would be unfair to judge them on one band. Instead, I prefer to judge them on their inability to act in that manner.

Oh and;

blitz likes 'band x'. His opinon is not usually taken seriously.

[xxSlipknotxx]

As much as those bands suck, any justifiable opinion is worth taking into consideration. As such, it would be unfair to judge them on one band. Instead, I prefer to judge them on their inability to act in that manner.

Oh and;

blitz likes 'band x'. His opinon is not usually taken seriously.

Man, stop taking the fun out of ****ting on people's musical opinions.

And blitz's opinion is to be taken seriously, he likes the Dead Kennedys. That holds more weight than what just about every other person in this forum listens to

[lk6.200]

And ya know what? All that hip-hop hate needs to go until people really understand what it was. It was a movement that allowed inner-city youth a chance to express themselves, be it through art (graffiti), dance (breakdancing), or music (the DJ). The DJ was all about creating a unique sound without possessing the training that other music styles often required. Besides, it's not like they could relate to what was going on musically at the time.

Yes, yes, we all relize it's an outlet for kids growing up in the ghetto to express themselves to distract themselves from how sh*tty their lives are. Still doesn't give them the excuse to make sh*tty music. Instead of b*tching about how sh*tty their lives are, they could do something constructive, like go out with a few friends and clean up the neighborhood, or actually report when a crime like a murder or drug deal happens instead of going with the "snitches get stitches" mentality, etc. I just don't see how glorifying the gang lifestyle is going to make anything better where they came from.

I would probably have to say auto-tune is one of the worst things to happen to music, specifically pop/hip hop, as it poisons the whole genre. It's not like MAJOR DEATH BLOW or anything, but yeah, it takes some of the talent out.

I completely agree with the auto-tune statement. However, there has to be talent in a genre in the first place to be able to have it removed. Rap/sh*t hop do not apply here.

****ing exams, probably means another weekish that I can't make fun of bands.

I'm actually looking forward to you trashing my favorite bands. You should tell Civil Disobedient to stop trying to steal your thunder. It's not working.

LK likes Disturbed and Requiem likes Green Day. Their opinions usually are not taken seriously.

And you like the Clash, so your opinion shouldn't be taken seriously either. I'm not even sure if they're trying to rip off *blech* The Ramones, or if it's the other way. Besides, Disturbed aren't even one of my favorite bands.

Personally, the beats on Volume 1 had this grittiness to them that made them enjoyable, and they accompanied his lyrics well; albeit, I can see people viewing them as drab and simplistic. Volume 2 had better beats and a more polished sound, and I thought "Point of No Return," "Obnoxious," and even "Freedom of Speech" had 'catchy' beats.

Hmm, here we are with "the beats" argument again. Why is it whenever someone is trying to defend rap/hip hop, it seems like this is the only thing they can come up with? So what if the beat is "good"? You want a good drum beat? What's a "good" drum beat in your opinion anyway? Something danceable? If that's the case, your argument holds absolutely no water. You can dance to anything with a rhythym. You want actual talent on the drums instead of just some random j@ckass programming an overused, generic, haphazardly thrown together beat? Check out the intros to either Painkiller by Judas Priest or Hot For Teacher by Van Halen. I'd love to see your precious immortal technique even attempt something like that. If he does, I'm going to be sitting comfortably in a lawn chair slowly downing Jack and Cokes and laughing to myself as his massive fail plane crashes and burns horribly.

Oh, and I also have one final statement while I'm on the subject- Gene Hoglan. That is all.

And blitz's opinion is to be taken seriously, he likes the Dead Kennedys. That holds more weight than what just about every other person in this forum listens to

Dead Kennedys= great hardcore punk. Pennywise= better hardcore punk. The Clash= sh*tty generic punk from the 60's/70's that people only know anymore because of Rock Band.

And ya know what? All that hip-hop hate needs to go until people really understand what it was. It was a movement that allowed inner-city youth a chance to express themselves, be it through art (graffiti),dance (breakdancing), or music (the DJ). The DJ was all about creating a unique sound without possessing the training that other music styles often required. Besides, it's not like they could relate to what was going on musically at the time.

And another thing- how is graffiti art? It's defacing a building/street/car/other piece of someone's property and nothing more. How would you feel if someone spray painted all over your property?

By the way- it's also illegal, and I do believe promoting illegal acts here is against the rules as well.

[Fool's Requiem]

By the way- it's also illegal, and I do believe promoting illegal acts here is against the rules as well.

Graffiti isn't illegal. Vandalism is.

Worst thing that happened to this thread: People making unsubstantiated statements about an entire genre

You want an explanation, fine.

Rap is a disease. They're all no-talent hacks trying to pretend that they're super cool because they spit out a bunch of words in quick fashion while talking about sex, drugs, money, their "bling", violence, and hatred towards other gangs, cops, and white folk. Oh, and they like to talk about how they had it hard in the ghetto. Kiss my ass, if you don't like the ghetto, move the f**k out and get a real job you lazy b**tards.
Not to mention that the s**t isn't even music and they never use real instruments, they just use their stupid ass keyboards to make all of the noise not coming out of their mouths.

Rap is s**t, and I know some people agree with me to some degree, but are to scared to admit it because it's not "cool" to agree with JOLT.

If you can give me ONE good reason why rap is not the worst thing to happen to music, then enlighten me.

[lk6.200]

Graffiti IS vandalaism because it'd defacing/destroying property.

[Technique's Man]

Yes, yes, we all relize it's an outlet for kids growing up in the ghetto to express themselves to distract themselves from how sh*tty their lives are. Still doesn't give them the excuse to make sh*tty music. Instead of b*tching about how sh*tty their lives are, they could do something constructive, like go out with a few friends and clean up the neighborhood, or actually report when a crime like a murder or drug deal happens instead of going with the "snitches get stitches" mentality, etc. I just don't see how glorifying the gang lifestyle is going to make anything better where they came from.

You don't know anything, and yet there you go rambling on and on... and on.

Not all hip-hop is "Gangsta rap." There were/are groups like The Cool Kidz or A Tribe Called Quest that deal with different issues. Artists like MF Doom choose to rap via a gimmick (with Doom, he uses a mask and sh*t; it's kinda cool though odd). So uh, stop generalizing.

And then there are artists like Immortal Technique, whose raps promote intellectual awareness of the problems surrounding the ghetto lifestyle. And furthermore, many of these guys go out and do social work in their communities. Just because YOU aren't aware of it doesn't mean that it doesn’t happen.

And in regards to the “gangsta rappers” themselves… they are responding to the problems that happened BEFORE they emerged and the trauma they saw as children through a musical perspective… It’s often known as catharsis, and it is done ALL THE TIME by musicians, be them violinists or rappers. It helps the emotional healing process, and gives people a good vibe about horrid conditions that exist.

I completely agree with the auto-tune statement. However, there has to be talent in a genre in the first place to be able to have it removed. Rap/sh*t hop do not apply here.

Your density has no bounds. I have yet to bash your genre of music, because as much as I think it’s worthless, I recognize the fact that there are other people, such as yourself who can MIRACULOUSLY like that genre. I dunno how you manage, but you manage, and I won’t get into derogatory name-calling about it.

Auto-tune dumbs down the lyrical content of hip-hop, and depreciates the quality of music by allowing anyone to sing flawlessly (even without being able to carry a tune in reality). It applies to hip-hop just as it applies to your music.

Hmm, here we are with "the beats" argument again. Why is it whenever someone is trying to defend rap/hip hop, it seems like this is the only thing they can come up with? So what if the beat is "good"? You want a good drum beat? What's a "good" drum beat in your opinion anyway? Something danceable? If that's the case, your argument holds absolutely no water. You can dance to anything with a rhythym. You want actual talent on the drums instead of just some random j@ckass programming an overused, generic, haphazardly thrown together beat? Check out the intros to either Painkiller by Judas Priest or Hot For Teacher by Van Halen. I'd love to see your precious immortal technique even attempt something like that. If he does, I'm going to be sitting comfortably in a lawn chair slowly downing Jack and Cokes and laughing to myself as his massive fail plane crashes and burns horribly.

Once again, I love the ignorance you flaunt. Immortal Technique is not a f*ckin DJ; he’s an MC. MCs spit bars, and I’d love to see your Judas Priest trying to sing or do anything lyrical over a beat right after Technique has performed; they’d get laughed out of the f*ckin arena.

In case you missed my entire first paragraph on that response, I was actually AGREEING with you. OH SH*T. I said that the reason why people looking for dancing beats out of Technique aren’t satisfied is because he’s not known for club songs—he’s a very lyrical and politically potent MC, and has people REPEATING HIS RHYMES.

No, I like hip-hop because of wordplay. Slick-talking. Rhyme schemes. Metaphors. Similes. Visual images. Punchlines that offer a unique perspective to historical and current events. The fact that this all can be laid down in poetry form and then made to blend with a unique beat is what makes me a fan of hip-hop. I don’t care about dancibility at all. That’s not even what hip-hop is about and that’s why I went so far as to say 50 Cent was one of the worst things to happen to music.

As for your beat sh*t, DJing is tough to do; being able to handle the turntables and coming up with a unique sound takes some honing. And these DJs performing live… they do some crazy stuff; they’re almost like acrobats.

For me though, the music that accompanies the rhymes has to set the proper mood and tempo. If it’s that East Coast hardcore sh*t, it needs that “Boom bap” sound. If it’s wistful and introspective, it needs to sound that w ay. That type of thing.

And another thing- how is graffiti art? It's defacing a building/street/car/other piece of someone's property and nothing more. How would you feel if someone spray painted all over your property?

By the way- it's also illegal, and I do believe promoting illegal acts here is against the rules as well.

Hahahahaha… You would try to bullsh*t here, wouldn’t you? Unfortunately for you, there is a GW thread in the Artistic Area that discusses Graffiti as an urban artform, and displays some rather magnificent works that you should look at before trying to get me banned.

http://forums.gamewinners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581770

I’m not an idiot… I follow rules, especially when they’re f*ckin simple. How’s that been for you?

EDIT: I'll get to Jolt in a minute... and actually I don't feel like it, because he did the SAME exact thing as LK...

Rap is a disease. They're all no-talent hacks trying to pretend that they're super cool because they spit out a bunch of words in quick fashion

It's called poetry... I'm SO SORRY you can't do it.


while talking about sex, drugs, money, their "bling", violence, and hatred towards other gangs, cops, and white folk.

Immortal Technique, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, a Tribe Called Quest, Aesop Rock (a white guy, I might add), etc. etc. What are you even talking about? There are multiple layers of hip-hop, just as there are multiple layers of any other music genre.

Oh, and they like to talk about how they had it hard in the ghetto. Kiss my ass, if you don't like the ghetto, move the f**k out and get a real job you lazy b**tards.

Don't disparage people who've never been given a break in their entire lives and are ten times more men then you will ever become. When Civil Rights legislation was enacted, the morons in Washington forgot that in a capitalist society, money is just as important as the Civil Rights. So when African-Americans moved to the North to pursue a future away from the KKK, white people moved out of the cities into Suburbs, and because of generations of Jim Crow and double standards, African Americans didn't have the money to follow them out. White flight led to the loss of business, and created the ghettos. Conditions further exacerbated when the government decided to spend a sh*tload of money to "STOP COMMUNISM," and did things like help the Contras out and to allow them to sell crack cocaine to inner-city communities.

Not to mention that the s**t isn't even music and they never use real instruments, they just use their stupid ass keyboards to make all of the noise not coming out of their mouths.

Keyboards aren't musical instruments? Say WHAT?

Rap is s**t, and I know some people agree with me to some degree, but are to scared to admit it because it's not "cool" to agree with JOLT.

I don't give a f*ck about who you are, I just know that hip-hop is the music I listen to every damn day and I will not tolerate ignorant people desecrating it blindly like drunkards pissing on the street after a baseball game.

If you can give me ONE good reason why rap is not the worst thing to happen to music, then enlighten me.

I've provided you twenty, at least.

Now what I want you to do... See that longass list of names I threw out? Pick 5, listen to a song of theirs, and come back and tell me that they're the worst thing that ever happened to music.

[Dean]

The original artists that brought the genre to prominence in the late 80s and early 90s, acts like PE, for instance, had political messages, and specifically spoke about police brutality. Other artists came along who wanted to talk about banging women, making money, and doing drugs. But every genre has that. Mainstream rock today is all about having sex, doing drugs, etc.

[xxSlipknotxx]

Yes, yes, we all relize it's an outlet for kids growing up in the ghetto to express themselves to distract themselves from how sh*tty their lives are. Still doesn't give them the excuse to make sh*tty music. Instead of b*tching about how sh*tty their lives are, they could do something constructive, like go out with a few friends and clean up the neighborhood, or actually report when a crime like a murder or drug deal happens instead of going with the "snitches get stitches" mentality, etc. I just don't see how glorifying the gang lifestyle is going to make anything better where they came from.

You obviously don't live in a metropolitan city and thus have no clue about what goes on in there other than what you read on the news. One indication you need to stop talking

I completely agree with the auto-tune statement. However, there has to be talent in a genre in the first place to be able to have it removed. Rap/sh*t hop do not apply here.

NWA has more talent than you will ever have, nay any of the bands you like will ever have

I'm actually looking forward to you trashing my favorite bands. You should tell Civil Disobedient to stop trying to steal your thunder. It's not working.

CD and I work as a team trying to weed people like you from this forum. If only Noise still posted here...

And you like the Clash, so your opinion shouldn't be taken seriously either. I'm not even sure if they're trying to rip off *blech* The Ramones, or if it's the other way. Besides, Disturbed aren't even one of my favorite bands.

...wait for it

Dead Kennedys= great hardcore punk. Pennywise= better hardcore punk. The Clash= sh*tty generic punk from the 60's/70's that people only know anymore because of Rock Band.

Jesus christ. Someone needs to pull a Chris Benoit on your family for that statement.

And another thing- how is graffiti art? It's defacing a building/street/car/other piece of someone's property and nothing more. How would you feel if someone spray painted all over your property?

By the way- it's also illegal, and I do believe promoting illegal acts here is against the rules as well.

You just don't get it. You need to get your head out of your ass and realize that there is more to life than blindly following everything an authority figure tells you to do

Rap is s**t, and I know some people agree with me to some degree, but are to scared to admit it because it's not "cool" to agree with JOLT.

People aren't going to agree with you because they realize you're 14 years old, are angry at your parents, and you want to be rebellious by growing your hair out and listening to metal bands, spouting off all that white power bull****. Congratulations George Wallace, you are the first individual for me to ever ignore

[Fool's Requiem]

It's called poetry... I'm SO SORRY you can't do it.
Poetry doesn't suck. I'm SO SORRY you don't understand.

What are you even talking about? There are multiple layers of hip-hop, just as there are multiple layers of any other music genre.
There are different types of trash in my trash can too. One piece of trash isn't any better than other pieces of trash because it's all trash.

Don't disparage people who've never been given a break in their entire lives and are ten times more men then you will ever become.
They've never been given a break because they never put forth any sort of effort. After all, it's really hard to get good grades in school, get a job, and avoid getting involved in drugs or gangs.

Keyboards aren't musical instruments? Say WHAT?
Keyboards mimic musical instruments. My computer can mimic musical instruments with the right program too, but that doesn't make my computer an instrument.


Now what I want you to do... See that longass list of names I threw out? Pick 5, listen to a song of theirs, and come back and tell me that they're the worst thing that ever happened to music.

No. I've heard enough rap over the years, I don't need to listen to your examples of "good rap" to prove to me that I still hate rap.

[Ihsahn]

No. I've heard enough rap over the years, I don't need to listen to your examples of "good rap" to prove to me that I still hate rap.

This is the problem. Here's a big hint to everyone in this forum - not meaning to patronize everyone who gets this already, but still - you're allowed to dislike something without deriding it as the worst thing ever. You hate rap, fair enough, but that's not the same as it being worthless and any of the other things that keep being brought up...

Saying you dislike something is fine... providing reasons why you don't like something is fine. What isn't fine is deciding that since you don't happen to like something, everyone who does enjoy it, or is involved in it in someway, is an idiot. It doesn't make you cool. It doesn't distance you from the scene your trying to deride, or ingratiate you further with anything you try to identify with... I'm ****ing sick and tired of this ridiculous habit of people instantly criticizing anything that falls outside of their self-defined latitude of acceptance; in my experience people tend to grow out of it in the mid to late teens. I can't be bothered to check how old everyone is in this thread, but can't you just get off your high horse and let other forms of expression exist without looking down your nose at them?

[blitz]

Fool's Requiem = Jolt ? That makes a whole lot of sense. I used to be all like "RAP SUX LOL YA ROCK" but I was also about eleven at the time, and grew out of that phase around age thirteen.

I saw X always talking about Technique so it got my attention and I downloaded a lot of his stuff. Land of the Gun and Dance with the Devil are prime examples of amazing music, with deep meaning. And it's rap. Get over it; open your mind to other music. You say all rap talks about gangs, "hoes", bling, and shooting each other. I can think of a lot of metal bands and "rock" that sounds the same and is very generic. Green Day is a prime example of generic emo bull****.


Also, how is The Clash "generic 60's/70's punk"? I don't think I've heard one band that is anything like The Clash.


Soup Is Good Food.

[Technique's Man]

Poetry doesn't suck. I'm SO SORRY you don't understand.

Neither does hip-hop. If you weren't dense enough to comprehend some of the better works available, you would get it. Alas.

There are different types of trash in my trash can too. One piece of trash isn't any better than other pieces of trash because it's all trash.

Let's rewind. You said that all rappers talk about is sex, drugs, and material objects, essentially. So when I named rappers who AREN'T about those things, and then stated that hip-hop has more facets than those things, that's your response? What's your problem with rap that doesn't talk about the things that offend you? That’s like me judging Rock music based on Kevin Rudolph. (“LET IT ROCK! LET IT ROCK! WHAT THE F*CK!?)

They've never been given a break because they never put forth any sort of effort. After all, it's really hard to get good grades in school, get a job, and avoid getting involved in drugs or gangs.

*sigh* You’re a very sheltered and naïve child.

Keyboards mimic musical instruments. My computer can mimic musical instruments with the right program too, but that doesn't make my computer an instrument.

It takes skill to produce harmonious sound from a keyboard. The same could be said about a flute, a violin… anything. I don’t see how you gotta be so rigid about what is and what isn’t an instrument. There was music before sheet music and guitars and drums…

No. I've heard enough rap over the years, I don't need to listen to your examples of "good rap" to prove to me that I still hate rap.

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. At the very least, you need to listen to the examples to know that hip-hop is not the worst thing to ever happen to music. Failing to do so just reveals an incredible amount of ignorance.

[lk6.200]

And then there are artists like Immortal Technique, whose raps promote intellectual awareness of the problems surrounding the ghetto lifestyle. And furthermore, many of these guys go out and do social work in their communities. Just because YOU aren't aware of it doesn't mean that it doesn’t happen.

Such as? I've never heard of any rapper doing this.

And in regards to the “gangsta rappers” themselves… they are responding to the problems that happened BEFORE they emerged and the trauma they saw as children through a musical perspective… It’s often known as catharsis, and it is done ALL THE TIME by musicians, be them violinists or rappers. It helps the emotional healing process, and gives people a good vibe about horrid conditions that exist.

So they promote the awareness of the problem. What exactly are they doing to fix it?

Auto-tune dumbs down the lyrical content of hip-hop, and depreciates the quality of music by allowing anyone to sing flawlessly (even without being able to carry a tune in reality). It applies to hip-hop just as it applies to your music.

I have yet to find one rock/metal band outside of the god awful mainstream crap like nickleback or fall out boy that use it.

Once again, I love the ignorance you flaunt. Immortal Technique is not a f*ckin DJ; he’s an MC. MCs spit bars, and I’d love to see your Judas Priest trying to sing or do anything lyrical over a beat right after Technique has performed; they’d get laughed out of the f*ckin arena.

Rob Halford could if he wanted to, but he chooses not to because that would completely destroy the quality of his vocals. The things he can do with his voice are on a whole other plane of existance from what technique could ever possibly hope to do. There's a reason why he's called the metal god.

50 Cent was one of the worst things to happen to music.

At least we can agree on one thing.

Hahahahaha… You would try to bullsh*t here, wouldn’t you? Unfortunately for you, there is a GW thread in the Artistic Area that discusses Graffiti as an urban artform, and displays some rather magnificent works that you should look at before trying to get me banned.

It's still defacing something which in turn is vandalism, which in turn is ILLEGAL. If graffiti artists really want to draw something or come up with a great work of art, why don't they go buy a canvas instead of spray painting all over a building, sidewalk, or whatever else they can find?


Don't disparage people who've never been given a break in their entire lives and are ten times more men then you will ever become. When Civil Rights legislation was enacted, the morons in Washington forgot that in a capitalist society, money is just as important as the Civil Rights. So when African-Americans moved to the North to pursue a future away from the KKK, white people moved out of the cities into Suburbs, and because of generations of Jim Crow and double standards, African Americans didn't have the money to follow them out. White flight led to the loss of business, and created the ghettos. Conditions further exacerbated when the government decided to spend a sh*tload of money to "STOP COMMUNISM," and did things like help the Contras out and to allow them to sell crack cocaine to inner-city communities.

Yet again with the same, tired, old "the white man f*cked our ancestors so let's blame him for crap his great great great grandparents did that he had no hand in whatsoever" argument. I'm really getting sick and tired of people like you blaming the current generation of white people for something that happened however many years ago that we had no control over because WE WEREN'T EVEN ALIVE AT THE FKN TIME!

I don't give a f*ck about who you are, I just know that hip-hop is the music I listen to every damn day and I will not tolerate ignorant people desecrating it blindly like drunkards pissing on the street after a baseball game.

You can polish a turd.....

[Dan]

It's still defacing something which in turn is vandalism, which in turn is ILLEGAL.

You're forgetting that many local governments set up walls etc for graffiti artists to LEGALLY spray paint right?

Green Day is a prime example of generic emo bull****.

I'm going to have to stop you making ignorant statements unless you wish to find yourself in the same position as Jolt/LK. GREEN DAY IS NOT EMO.

[lk6.200]

You're forgetting that many local governments set up walls etc for graffiti artists to LEGALLY spray paint right?

I'm going to have to stop you making ignorant statements unless you wish to find yourself in the same position as Jolt/LK. GREEN DAY IS NOT EMO.

1. Yes. I'm talking about the illegal kind that's sprayed on crap people wish it to not be sprayed on.

2. They're not emo. Yet. Their current musical trend would lead me to believe they're turning emo. They need to return to their Dookie era sound.

[Dan]

1. Yes. I'm talking about the illegal kind that's sprayed on crap people wish it to not be sprayed on.

Yes but whoever it was that you were arguing is talking generally.

[Flip-Hkd]

Tech don't even bother with him, you can't win. In his eyes at least. Just know, you make sense to everyone else, but little kids you won't get through to. As much as i'd like to put my opinion to the situation there is too much to cover for no satisfaction. His only points against hip hop are personal dis-likes and generalizations, it is pointless. It is just like people hating on metal for screaming saying it is all random yelling etc. you can't fight the ignorance and the narrow mindedness.

Everyone but jolt will get what I mean.

[Fool's Requiem]

I miss the days when I wasn't the only one here that thinks Rap sucks.

Tech don't even bother with him, you can't win. In his eyes at least. Just know, you make sense to everyone else, but little kids you won't get through to. As much as i'd like to put my opinion to the situation there is too much to cover for no satisfaction. His only points against hip hop are personal dis-likes and generalizations, it is pointless. It is just like people hating on metal for screaming saying it is all random yelling etc. you can't fight the ignorance and the narrow mindedness.

I find it amusing that you think that I'm a kid. I guess us 24 year olds can't have wild or even crazy notions as to why we think rap sucks.

Everyone but jolt will get what I mean.
Oh, I got what you meant, alright. But from the looks of it, it's just more of the pot calling the kettle black. By the statements you've just made, it appears anyone with an opinion differing from your own is wrong.
With that kind of thinking, we might as well not even have a discussion forum on the internet. We should just get Al Gore to turn off the internets; we don't need it anymore because Flip-Hkd must be God as he is apparently always right. I guess we should all just trust your words as if it were written scripture and worship the ground you walk on. :rolleyes:

You, Technique, and Slipknot all must be those "I'm always right and you're always wrong" kind of guys, huh? It's Ok; I understand your need to always be right. It happens to the best of us. Just don't expect me to follow suit.

GREEN DAY IS NOT EMO.
Wow... I actually agree with somebody here. Green Day is not Emo. I can see why people would mistake them an Emo band, but as far as their music is concerned, I don’t think they’re Emo.

[Dan]

I find it amusing that you think that I'm a kid. I guess us 24 year olds can't have wild or even crazy notions as to why we think rap sucks.

Everyone can have opinions, you just can't seem to logically justify them.

[Technique's Man]

Such as? I've never heard of any rapper doing this.

Can you please just f*ckin admit that this part stems from pure ignorance, because you don't really care about what these rappers do? Because if you did, here's some charity work done by people from mainstream to underground:

http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.9002/title.rick-ross-trick-daddy-host-blood-drive-for-child
http://allhiphop.com/stories/news/archive/2009/04/10/21346995.aspx
http://www.riaa.org/newsitem.php?news_month_filter=6&news_year_filter=2001&resultpage=&id=8FA65322-1536-721F-0C9A-1BC2E2E7BC1A

Do I really have to continue?

So they promote the awareness of the problem. What exactly are they doing to fix it?

You're kidding. If the government of America, which is being funded billions of dollars to fix these problems, can't fix these problems, what are a handful of MCs and DJs gonna do. They try their hardest by engaging in these community projects, and in the case of politically conscious MCs, by spreading knowledge to a vast majority of people.

I have yet to find one rock/metal band outside of the god awful mainstream crap like nickleback or fall out boy that use it.

Completely flawed theory, man. You stated that because hip-hop wasn't a genre of music, auto-tune still impacted negatively music. So I replied mainly asserting that hip-hop is a genre of music and that auto-tune has negatively impacted it just as much as it's negatively impacted everything else.

Rob Halford could if he wanted to, but he chooses not to because that would completely destroy the quality of his vocals. The things he can do with his voice are on a whole other plane of existance from what technique could ever possibly hope to do. There's a reason why he's called the metal god.

WHOO!!! HE'S THE METAL GOD!!! HE CAN SCREAM REALLY LOUDLY WAHHHH!

Oh whoops. I was gettin my LK on. To be serious though, Rob Halford could not rap. Don't even pretend he could.


At least we can agree on one thing.

Actually know... Hearing you two ramble on changed my mind. The worst thing that happened to music is the rise of indoctrinated fools who've been fed propaganda all their lives and live narrow minded in a f*ckin box, and only know how to bash musical choices publicly and pretend that that's cool.

It's still defacing something which in turn is vandalism, which in turn is ILLEGAL. If graffiti artists really want to draw something or come up with a great work of art, why don't they go buy a canvas instead of spray painting all over a building, sidewalk, or whatever else they can find?

GET A F*CKIN' CLUE... Graffiti doesn't have to be illegal, and the graffiti I was talking about wasn't. I'm not gonna get banned, I'm not you, nice try, get over it.

Yet again with the same, tired, old "the white man f*cked our ancestors so let's blame him for crap his great great great grandparents did that he had no hand in whatsoever" argument. I'm really getting sick and tired of people like you blaming the current generation of white people for something that happened however many years ago that we had no control over because WE WEREN'T EVEN ALIVE AT THE FKN TIME!

Nobody goes, "White people are f*ckers" in their raps. They're usually targeting the upper class, on the usual "Liberals v. Conservatives" good sh*t, that happens everywhere. Or most often, they're attacking guys like the banks, Chaney, Rove, Bush, and Reagan. Don't tell me these people didn't do stupid things that led to major problems. Don't tell me they weren't alive when they f*cked up.

You can polish a turd.....

You can suck a d*ck... Oh sh*t, you already do that.

I miss the days when I wasn't the only one here that thinks Rap sucks.

A lot of people on GW don't like Rap. Most of those people aren't gonna run around, act like obnoxious pricks, and bash the genre openly, because that's not really a mature or civilized way of handling things.

Also, before we get any further, considering you DIDN'T respond to my post, I'd chalk it up to you getting OWNED.

I find it amusing that you think that I'm a kid. I guess us 24 year olds can't have wild or even crazy notions as to why we think rap sucks.

24 year olds are grown enough to f*ckin realize when they come out lookin like a fool and when they should just quit. So, uh, I'm doubtin the age slightly.

You, Technique, and Slipknot all must be those "I'm always right and you're always wrong" kind of guys, huh? It's Ok; I understand your need to always be right. It happens to the best of us. Just don't expect me to follow suit.

No, it's working in reverse man... You're the one saying HIP-HOP SUX I'M RIGHT.

[xxSlipknotxx]

this thread needs to go back to its original purpose: Michael Graves and Jerry Only bashing

Such as? I've never heard of any rapper doing this.

Its not exactly hard to search this. And just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So they promote the awareness of the problem. What exactly are they doing to fix it?

How can you fix something if no one knows about the problem?


Rob Halford could if he wanted to, but he chooses not to because that would completely destroy the quality of his vocals. The things he can do with his voice are on a whole other plane of existance from what technique could ever possibly hope to do. There's a reason why he's called the metal god.

Because he's the only guy in metal to come out as openly gay without trying to make a buck off it?

It's still defacing something which in turn is vandalism, which in turn is ILLEGAL. If graffiti artists really want to draw something or come up with a great work of art, why don't they go buy a canvas instead of spray painting all over a building, sidewalk, or whatever else they can find?

How detrimental is spray-painting to your life? You're making a big deal out of something equivalent to jay-walking

Yet again with the same, tired, old "the white man f*cked our ancestors so let's blame him for crap his great great great grandparents did that he had no hand in whatsoever" argument. I'm really getting sick and tired of people like you blaming the current generation of white people for something that happened however many years ago that we had no control over because WE WEREN'T EVEN ALIVE AT THE FKN TIME!

Unread and racist. Awesome. Whites today have just as much of a hand in perpetuating racism as our ancestors did. We expect minorities to magically rise out of poverty without actually working to help them. Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve ****. I dare you to give me an argument on how whites today have been completely absolved of crimes of the past (and Obama as president is a wrong answer)

I miss the days when I wasn't the only one here that thinks Rap sucks.

No, you're one of two people who lacks the brain function to comprehend the meaning of the genre, and ignore any claims that there is one. Thats what you're missing. At least when I blatantly troll I can back my **** up

I find it amusing that you think that I'm a kid. I guess us 24 year olds can't have wild or even crazy notions as to why we think rap sucks.

Your parents must be extremely proud of you and your education.

Oh, I got what you meant, alright. But from the looks of it, it's just more of the pot calling the kettle black. By the statements you've just made, it appears anyone with an opinion differing from your own is wrong.
With that kind of thinking, we might as well not even have a discussion forum on the internet. We should just get Al Gore to turn off the internets; we don't need it anymore because Flip-Hkd must be God as he is apparently always right. I guess we should all just trust your words as if it were written scripture and worship the ground you walk on. :rolleyes:

There's a difference when you've made an informed opinion as opposed to listening to one band and claiming the genre sucks

Wow... I actually agree with somebody here. Green Day is not Emo. I can see why people would mistake them an Emo band, but as far as their music is concerned, I don’t think they’re Emo.

This is why I'm always right and you're always wrong

2. They're not emo. Yet. Their current musical trend would lead me to believe they're turning emo. They need to return to their Dookie era sound.

Now I know why I only post in trolls as opposed to having civilized discussions

[One Of Light]

Unread and racist. Awesome. Whites today have just as much of a hand in perpetuating racism as our ancestors did. We expect minorities to magically rise out of poverty without actually working to help them. Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve ****. I dare you to give me an argument on how whites today have been completely absolved of crimes of the past (and Obama as president is a wrong answer)


it's not up to whites today to be "absolved" of crimes of the past that our ancestors may or may not have been involved in, nevermind the crimes perpetrated within the betrayal of our Native American predecessors in this country. Simply put, I find "I wasn't even ALIVE" to be a quite compelling argument in that subject. Nonetheless, you completely contradicted yourself - we're expecting minorities to rise from poverty that we had a hand in, given, but what was commonly done with the reparation payments? you had a whole generation of young African-American males driving Cadillacs that were mostly registered to Grandparents. There is NOTHING that white people can do to help the minority culture that is SO totally focused on the culture that supposedly represents the majority of them, Hip Hop culture (which is a freakin curse on society - the popularity of hip hop can be directly connected to so many cultural changes with regards to teen sex, pregnancy, murder, and drug use, and HAS been by sociologists). It's like the (mainstream) rap song a few years ago, Still Fly - "got everythang in my momma name" which matches up SO many young males of color where I live that it isn't even funny. Furthermore, men and women of color who try to rise above the poverty that has been inherent are looked down upon, slurred as "uncle toms" and so on, and their dedication to their race is challenged by their own people. So what are we to do?
Well FDR tried, and so have his successors, by setting up the welfare and food stamp programs so that it's nigh impossible for anyone NOT in a minority group to qualify. (as someone who made less than 8k last year in salary, lived alone, and STILL failed to qualify for any government aid other than Pell Grants can attest to) So to imply that our government hasn't attempted to help poverty by offering them hopefully enough assistance to be able to afford better neighborhoods and things for their children is laughable. Drive through an urban neighborhood in my area sometime around tax refund time - you'll see people installing new car stereos in their luxury cars while living in housing that should reasonably be condemned; you'll be confronted by bass so loud it could be deemed obnoxious, and you'll see young males wearing Ed Hardy jeans and hoodies, and wearing $500 worth of new clothing, all name brand, instead of buying more reasonably priced items and saving the rest for the family's well being. It's an emphasis on supposed wealth as a whole culture that is the problem, not anything that our generation did to the culture as a whole. There are more millionaires of color now than ever, and as a result of being ostracized by their own people for valuing things other than money and power, such as education, they have turned their backs on the streets that spawned them, and say they've "risen above" the poverty of their youth. That is, today, an option for most anyone who has the dedication and forethought to dedicate themselves to something other than having a reputation on the street. EVEN if one's parents are less than reputable, people have risen FAR above that and succeeded in today's culture.
*takes a deep breath and steps off my soapbox*

[Demikain]

I find it amusing that you think that I'm a kid. I guess us 24 year olds can't have wild or even crazy notions as to why we think rap sucks.
You shouldn't find it amusing, you should do something about it. Your posting makes you come across like you're 15 years old. Stop generalising the entirety of a genre of music because every time you post in this thread you look like even more of an idiot.

[Fool's Requiem]

You shouldn't find it amusing, you should do something about it. Your posting makes you come across like you're 15 years old. Stop generalising the entirety of a genre of music because every time you post in this thread you look like even more of an idiot.

I'm generalizing the entire genre of rap because I dislike everything about rap.

Tell me, do you enjoy country music?

[Fire King]

I'm generalizing the entire genre of rap because I dislike everything about rap.

...

You're giving the worst reasons to do the worst things.

That's like me generalizing your entire family because I dislike everything about you.

I'm not going to do that, because I don't know your family.

Don't generalize an entire genre just because you dislike it.

Tell me, do you enjoy country music?

ha ha

i see what you did there

[Demikain]

I'm generalizing the entire genre of rap because I dislike everything about rap.

Tell me, do you enjoy country music?
Not especially, but I don't go slagging off the whole genre based on my limited exposure to country music. For the most part I don't enjoy it but some of it isn't bad and I can see why some people would like it. I'm not such a retard that I hear a few country songs on the radio and dislike them enough to dismiss the entire genre, which is undoubtedly very varied and diverse. Also, I don't claim that all country musicians are untalented hacks just because I don't like what I hear. I can appreciate the skill and creativity of a musician without necessarily enjoying their music, something which you evidently cannot do.

I wouldn't mind if you said you didn't like the rap music that you'd heard, and that in general you thought it wasn't a good genre, but the way you're going on about it is terribly ignorant and irritating. I don't care that you think rap sucks but I do care that you're spouting absolute nonsense reasoning behind it.

[Typhon]

I can appreciate the skill and creativity of a musician without necessarily enjoying their music, something which you evidently cannot do.

Here, here!

I'm glad someone said it besides myself...

I think anyone can appreciate any work without necessarily finding it appealing themselves...

[Flip-Hkd]

It's kind of along the lines of don't judge something you don't understand. And by understand I mean view/experience with an UN-biased opinion. And by that I mean putting your personal beliefs,values,opinions [or w/e] aside and giving whatever it is a chance.

I used to hate metal, but when I got into it I realized the screaming wasn't just screaming, as horrible as some of it may have sounded, there is purpose and meaning behind how and why someone screams. It may not be your style, but it is theirs, and everyone is different. It's easy to say expressing yourself through country music is completely stupid, but there are people that think the exact same about whichever genre you prefer.

You hate rap and hip hop, and to others it's their life. [Or their life is like what you hear in the music], just because it doesn't tickle your fancy, or gain your liking and appreciation, does not mean it is obsolete. That's like me saying the new Swiffer [or whatever] is a complete bullsh*t way to clean your house, simply because i don't use it when I clean my house.

[Dean]

:words:


While driving in town and doing some errands today, I listened to my usual rock radio station, and heard two songs about getting drunk and having sex, so yeah.

[Technique's Man]

it's not up to whites today to be "absolved" of crimes of the past that our ancestors may or may not have been involved in, nevermind the crimes perpetrated within the betrayal of our Native American predecessors in this country. Simply put, I find "I wasn't even ALIVE" to be a quite compelling argument in that subject.

No. You gotta remember, it hasn’t been that long since Jim Crow was a norm in Southern society, and things like police brutality and discriminatory redistricting are live issues. Meanwhile, the white flight of the 60s-80s was fairly discriminatory, because there was little wealth in the African-American community at the time (they weren’t going to good schools), and so inner-cities became sh*t. Now you’re seeing the reverse—gentrification—where lower-income residents are getting thrown out of the cities in order to “beautify it.” Also, inner-city schooling sucks, and most Caucasian city-dwellers send their children to private schools, leaving the situation unresolved. Also, kids who commit crimes get f*cked and trapped in a cycle of nothingness—they don’t get good lawyers, and when they return to society, nobody wants to hire them, and they turn back to their past life.

Meanwhile, nobody’s blaming “white people” for the problems of African-Americans. In terms of crime, there is this idea of PERSONAL responsibility, not communal responsibility. African-American individuals steal, not the African-American community. Caucasian individuals rape, not the Caucasian community. See where I’m going with that?

What makes the crime rate for African Americans higher is the fact that they were discriminated against for two centuries, and when the segregation was lifted, they were not given any economic opportunities to sustain themselves. Welfare does not create strong entrepreneurial opportunities. Meanwhile, governments in the 60s and 70s spent more money on the military in Vietnam and in stopping black movements like Martin Luther King Jr. (look up COINTELPRO) than in actually helping solve blight in the community. Meanwhile, the Reagan administration in the 80s worked with the Contras, and part of that agreement allowed the Contras to sell cocaine in inner-cities—one of the parts of the 80s Crack epidemic.

Nonetheless, you completely contradicted yourself - we're expecting minorities to rise from poverty that we had a hand in, given, but what was commonly done with the reparation payments?

What reparation payments? Nobody got any money for being a slave. None of them got land—the Freedmen’s Bureaus in the 1800s were f*cked up and took everything back. That’s the problem. The government never found a way to integrate African-Americans into society economically. When a community is coming back from Jim Crow (which stunted educational opportunities), it needs capital from which to thrive. It had none.

you had a whole generation of young African-American males driving Cadillacs that were mostly registered to Grandparents. There is NOTHING that white people can do to help the minority culture that is SO totally focused on the culture that supposedly represents the majority of them, Hip Hop culture

Cadillacs and Bentley’s are part of America’s mainstream materialism culture—and is unrelated to Hip-Hop in its essence—ie. Hip-Hop culture. Face it; everybody wants to feel good about themselves, and African-Americans, who have been given rags for 200 years of their existence as African-Americans, saw this through money. The thing is though, that that “Bling” era was one of the phases of hip-hop—it wasn’t the whole culture at all.

(which is a freakin curse on society - the popularity of hip hop can be directly connected to so many cultural changes with regards to teen sex, pregnancy, murder, and drug use, and HAS been by sociologists).

No way… In fact, hip-hop was commercially strongest in the 90s, a time when Murder and drug use was on a downturn… Fail. A lot of those rappers were only rapping about what they saw on the block around them. Meanwhile, I wanna go back to the “personal responsibility” issue again—you are responsible for whatever the f*ck you wanna do, not music. Besides, teen sex and pregnancy has a lot of other sparking factors (how does hip-hop promote pregnancy?), and affect the rock, pop, and country music fans as much as hip-hop fans.

Finally, you’re forgetting that things such as movies and video games and parenting are also associated to those vices by sociologists… It’s not entirely on hip-hop, and I think anyone who blames their own f*ck-ups on hip-hop or Grand Theft Auto is a moron.

It's like the (mainstream) rap song a few years ago, Still Fly - "got everythang in my momma name" which matches up SO many young males of color where I live that it isn't even funny.

Hm… Sounds disparaging against people… as honest as it may be…

Furthermore, men and women of color who try to rise above the poverty that has been inherent are looked down upon, slurred as "uncle toms" and so on, and their dedication to their race is challenged by their own people. So what are we to do?

Sounds like those “hoodrats” are disparaging those who look down upon them in some sort of superiority complex. As we see, it’s an interesting and complicated dynamic, this looking down upon people, both by your looking down on these people, and them frowning upon African-Americans who are advancing. It’s really not so cut-and-dry.

Well FDR tried, and so have his successors, by setting up the welfare and food stamp programs so that it's nigh impossible for anyone NOT in a minority group to qualify.

FDR was President during Jim Crow, and didn’t do sh*t about Jim Crow… Nice try, FDR. He wasn’t any more special in terms of helping the plight of African-Americans.

As for successors… Lyndon Johnson came closest with his “Great Society,” but a lotta the money got diverted to Vietnam, as pointed out by Martin Luther King.

There are more millionaires of color now than ever, and as a result of being ostracized by their own people for valuing things other than money and power, such as education, they have turned their backs on the streets that spawned them, and say they've "risen above" the poverty of their youth.

There are a paltry few number of Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Professors, Deans of Universities, etc. coming from the African-American community. There are no good public schools where African-Americans meet, because nobody wants to invest money in these school systems (or they do, but gets diluted and diverted, or even in Gov. Mark Sanford’s case, get’s rejected).

I'm generalizing the entire genre of rap because I dislike everything about rap.

Tell me, do you enjoy country music?

I would never say Country music is the worst thing that ever happened to music. That’s the problem.

[Fool's Requiem]

I would never say Country music is the worst thing that ever happened to music. That’s the problem.

Oh, I get, so I can't speak my mind because you don't want to?

[Mike!]

I miss the days when I wasn't the only one here that thinks Rap sucks.
*sticks up hand*

I think rap sucks. I don't like it all. I... just.. don't like it.

[One Of Light]

and yet the culture still exists, despite attempts by social leaders, in which you're judged by how tough you are and how many crimes you commit... the option exists to simply NOT COMMIT crimes... but that's not a cultural option in the society we're discussing here...

given, the government burned money on the concept that war makes money, look at what we're doing today... why else would there be war, especially vietnam and korea?



The problem with this concept is that the intention of welfare and food stamps is to make it easier to use your actual INCOME to support the family, but the cultural issues we've discussed make that an uncommon occurrence.



part of america's materialistic culture is a part of it, but NOWHERE is that more evident than as a part of hip hop culture, especially with young black males. it sucks, but it's true. Driving a caddy gets you instant respect with a lot of the culture at large.



agreed on the GTA statement, however, it's been proven multiple times that teen pregnancy and underage sex/drug use hit its peak during the rise of hip hop music.

it really is - it's not good enough to just be black and succeed, you have to do it a certain way. or at least that's what a good friend of mine, who grew up in urban Atlanta, has stated to me repeatedly... he's been called "uncle tom" since he was 14 and started playing classical violin.



FDR established the current system of borrowing from the Social Security Trust to fund his plethora of social programs...
(socialIST programs perhaps?) And that's the origin of where the Food stamps and Welfare come from, which its sad to say is the bread and butter in a lot of urban areas.



the problem goes both ways - a lot of the people who come to positions of power get there with a chip on their shoulders. but look at people like Jesse Jackson who have played their color as a game, claiming to be a representative of their color and culture while simultaneously selling their own people out.
Look at the reaction from most blacks at the statements Bill Cosby made a few years ago... the TRUE statements he made.
in general, my whole argument was that whites are not responsible for the mistakes of their ancestors. However, the world at large, whites, blacks, and everyone inbetween are responsible for the way things are now. Unfortunately it's an unfortunately descending cycle that a neighborhood becomes an "inner city" neighborhood, then the whites pull their kids out of the schools, and unfortunately from there the parents that can't afford to move don't have the MONEY to make the schools what they could be. However, and nobody ever covers this, schools in rural areas suffer FAR more than these so called inner city schools, and trust me, I went to a school whose largest graduating class ever was 76 people, until my class of 104.
It's not fair, but the problem I mentioned earlier of blacks abandoning their own due to past persecution happens every day, like it or not, it's based in fact. Truth is that we all need to stand together as people, and ignore race and all that BS, and realize that we're gonna destroy each other, and this world, if we don't.

[Technique's Man]

I'll take time to address One of Light's comments, and will post those up later. However...

*sticks up hand*

I think rap sucks. I don't like it all. I... just.. don't like it.

Do you think hip-hop is the worst thing that happened to music? That's where the argument is, and that's why people are leveling Jolt.

Nobody's saying it's wrong to think hip-hop sucks. To be blunt, I think rock, pop, country, and classical music all suck. But I'm not saying that these four styles of music were the worst thing that happened to music universally.

[Mike!]

So, you really only listen to rap/hip/R&B? If that's the case... that's kind of narrow minded.

But to answer your question. It's not the worst thing to happen to music. Because there is no single worst thing. There are a lot of bad things that have happened to music.

As for rap, I don't like it because... I don't like the lyrics, I don't mind them meaningful or enjoyable to listen to. I find them all about drugs, booty, killing, sex and the toys all these rich rappers have but still try and act all tough and street yet they live in mansions and rich then everyone in this thread put together. And, I just don't like the sound of it. I can't get into the "beat" or the "rhythm"...

[mr.rpg king]

24 year olds are grown enough to f*ckin realize when they come out lookin like a fool and when they should just quit. So, uh, I'm doubtin the age slightly.



Age doesn't guarentee wisdom, it just suggests it.

[Dan]

As for rap, I don't like it because... I don't like the lyrics, I don't mind them meaningful or enjoyable to listen to. I find them all about drugs, booty, killing, sex and the toys all these rich rappers have but still try and act all tough and street yet they live in mansions and rich then everyone in this thread put together. And, I just don't like the sound of it. I can't get into the "beat" or the "rhythm"...

Ffs, you've just gone and said the same ignorant thing thats been discussed in this thread/forum a hundred times over. There is more to rap than the mainstream gangster stuff you here.

I mean come on. I don't even listen to rap and I'm still trying to argue for it/intelligent enough to know that there is more than just the commercialised mainstream.

[Mike!]

I like how you completely ignored my other reasons for disliking rap. Good job.

[lk6.200]

I mean come on. I don't even listen to rap and I'm still trying to argue for it/intelligent enough to know that there is more than just the commercialised mainstream.

That may be, but he's still entitled to think that it sucks. Hell, I used to like hip hop and rap (when I was about 10 or 11, which doesn't really mean anything because kids that age have no notion of what good music is anyway), but once I realized how generic it was, how little talent it takes to put together a rap/hip hop song (at least on the radio), and how hollow, meaningless, and empty the lyrics are, I quickly grew out of it. Hell, I've even tried listening to X's beloved Immortal Technique, but I just can't get into it whatsoever. It sounds exactly the same as the crap on the radio, and the lyrics (the cop killing references in particular) are what get to me the most.

X seems to think I hate him and anyone else for liking rap, but he swung and missed on that one so many times it's ridiculous. I don't hate him or anyone else for liking it. I hate the genre itself, and the culture that's risin up around it, especially the "f*ck cops", "snitches get stitches", and "gangs=good" aspects of it. In my opinion, that culture that it perpetuates is bringing and dumbing down society by showing no respect to cops whatsoever, telling people to keep their mouths shut when a crime happens and they know about it, and encouraging people to go and shoot someone whenever they give them sh*t.

I also believe I've professed my love for many other genres outside of rock and metal (reggae, classical, punk, techno from time to time, and a multitude of others), but X has yet to show his appreciation for anything outside of rap and hip hop. Tell me X, what other musical styles do you enjoy?

And as for One Of Light's statements, it's not racism, whether you believe it to be or not. He's simply making an observation on a true aspect of reality, unfortunate as it may be. It's not racist if it's the truth.


No. You gotta remember, it hasn’t been that long since Jim Crow was a norm in Southern society, and things like police brutality and discriminatory redistricting are live issues. Meanwhile, the white flight of the 60s-80s was fairly discriminatory, because there was little wealth in the African-American community at the time (they weren’t going to good schools), and so inner-cities became sh*t. Now you’re seeing the reverse—gentrification—where lower-income residents are getting thrown out of the cities in order to “beautify it.” Also, inner-city schooling sucks, and most Caucasian city-dwellers send their children to private schools, leaving the situation unresolved. Also, kids who commit crimes get f*cked and trapped in a cycle of nothingness—they don’t get good lawyers, and when they return to society, nobody wants to hire them, and they turn back to their past life.

And one more thing.....

Meanwhile, nobody’s blaming “white people” for the problems of African-Americans.

You just did right there, skippy.

[xxSlipknotxx]

I like how you completely ignored my other reasons for disliking rap. Good job.

Thats because those reasons came after your incorrect statements about
hip hop

it's not up to whites today to be "absolved" of crimes of the past that our ancestors may or may not have been involved in, nevermind the crimes perpetrated within the betrayal of our Native American predecessors in this country. Simply put, I find "I wasn't even ALIVE" to be a quite compelling argument in that subject.

Just because you weren't alive doesn't mean you don't have a responsibility to atone for past transgressions. Ignoring the past minimizes the struggles that minorities have gone through, and its indication that you believe that we've gotten past that point, when we haven't.

Nonetheless, you completely contradicted yourself - we're expecting minorities to rise from poverty that we had a hand in, given, but what was commonly done with the reparation payments? you had a whole generation of young African-American males driving Cadillacs that were mostly registered to Grandparents.

There was as much of a contradiction in my statements as there were reparations to blacks.

There is NOTHING that white people can do to help the minority culture that is SO totally focused on the culture that supposedly represents the majority of them, Hip Hop culture (which is a freakin curse on society - the popularity of hip hop can be directly connected to so many cultural changes with regards to teen sex, pregnancy, murder, and drug use, and HAS been by sociologists).

This is why the majority of people in low-income areas are minorities. First saying that whites cannot help out is completely asinine. I'm not even going to get into how wrong you are there. Second, nice job demeaning an entire culture Hitler. Ever consider that Alabama is the curse on society? Third, the hip-hop culture represents a select few. The media exaggerates their claims because they still want you to be fearful of the black man. Not to mention all the detriments you claim to be caused by the hip-hop culture are actually caused by policy towards lower income areas.

It's like the (mainstream) rap song a few years ago, Still Fly - "got everythang in my momma name" which matches up SO many young males of color where I live that it isn't even funny. Furthermore, men and women of color who try to rise above the poverty that has been inherent are looked down upon, slurred as "uncle toms" and so on, and their dedication to their race is challenged by their own people. So what are we to do?

They're looked as Uncle Toms because many individuals who rise out of the ghetto forget their roots and try to put as much distance between themselves and the past.

Well FDR tried, and so have his successors, by setting up the welfare and food stamp programs so that it's nigh impossible for anyone NOT in a minority group to qualify. (as someone who made less than 8k last year in salary, lived alone, and STILL failed to qualify for any government aid other than Pell Grants can attest to)

All of these were created for white individuals, not minorities

So to imply that our government hasn't attempted to help poverty by offering them hopefully enough assistance to be able to afford better neighborhoods and things for their children is laughable.

How is welfare and food stamps going to help anybody? Its not like someone can invest their welfare money and make a killing in 10 years. Or afford much food other than the bare minimum to feed a family

Drive through an urban neighborhood in my area sometime around tax refund time - you'll see people installing new car stereos in their luxury cars while living in housing that should reasonably be condemned; you'll be confronted by bass so loud it could be deemed obnoxious, and you'll see young males wearing Ed Hardy jeans and hoodies, and wearing $500 worth of new clothing, all name brand, instead of buying more reasonably priced items and saving the rest for the family's well being.


I grew up in the Westside of Los Angeles, I saw all that ****. You know why they spend the money? Many of those kids who shamelessly throw money around are involved in drugs and you can't exactly put that money into a bank. Plus you're attacking the fact that people who've never really had money to spend and now do have no education on the concept of savings. Its a life of fleeting happiness, who am I to condemn them for spending their money on material goods. I'm more amazed at the fact that for someone who made less than $8000 last year, you have a computer. Stop spending your ****ing money on worthless goods

It's an emphasis on supposed wealth as a whole culture that is the problem, not anything that our generation did to the culture as a whole. There are more millionaires of color now than ever, and as a result of being ostracized by their own people for valuing things other than money and power, such as education, they have turned their backs on the streets that spawned them, and say they've "risen above" the poverty of their youth. That is, today, an option for most anyone who has the dedication and forethought to dedicate themselves to something other than having a reputation on the street. EVEN if one's parents are less than reputable, people have risen FAR above that and succeeded in today's culture.
*takes a deep breath and steps off my soapbox*


You have everything backwards

and yet the culture still exists, despite attempts by social leaders, in which you're judged by how tough you are and how many crimes you commit... the option exists to simply NOT COMMIT crimes... but that's not a cultural option in the society we're discussing here...

Its a proven fact that all Arabs are terrorists, all Jews are greedy bastards, all Irish are drunks, right?

The problem with this concept is that the intention of welfare and food stamps is to make it easier to use your actual INCOME to support the family, but the cultural issues we've discussed make that an uncommon occurrence.[/quote

Seeing the concept of welfare is that you don't have money to provide for your family, I'm inclined to disagree with this

[quote]part of america's materialistic culture is a part of it, but NOWHERE is that more evident than as a part of hip hop culture, especially with young black males. it sucks, but it's true. Driving a caddy gets you instant respect with a lot of the culture at large.

I pity you

agreed on the GTA statement, however, it's been proven multiple times that teen pregnancy and underage sex/drug use hit its peak during the rise of hip hop music.

Its also been shown in studies that cigarettes don't cause cancer. Also nice use of fallacies

it really is - it's not good enough to just be black and succeed, you have to do it a certain way. or at least that's what a good friend of mine, who grew up in urban Atlanta, has stated to me repeatedly... he's been called "uncle tom" since he was 14 and started playing classical violin.

A black friend of mine played violin and wasn't called "uncle tom." See how useless personal stories are

Unfortunately it's an unfortunately descending cycle that a neighborhood becomes an "inner city" neighborhood, then the whites pull their kids out of the schools, and unfortunately from there the parents that can't afford to move don't have the MONEY to make the schools what they could be.

Except for the fact that school funding comes from the government to chooses to appropriate that money to areas other than education. Look at Los Angeles, Detroit, Baltimore, or Washington DC

However, and nobody ever covers this, schools in rural areas suffer FAR more than these so called inner city schools, and trust me, I went to a school whose largest graduating class ever was 76 people, until my class of 104.

I had a graduating class of 400 out of 1000 kids that started. And our textbooks were woefully outdated. You also can't compare rural and metropolitan schools seeing as the governmental actions are entirely different

It's not fair, but the problem I mentioned earlier of blacks abandoning their own due to past persecution happens every day, like it or not, it's based in fact.

Personal experiences do not constitute fact.

Truth is that we all need to stand together as people, and ignore race and all that BS, and realize that we're gonna destroy each other, and this world, if we don't.

There's no problem with accepting race and the culture that comes from that

That may be, but he's still entitled to think that it sucks. Hell, I used to like hip hop and rap (when I was about 10 or 11, which doesn't really mean anything because kids that age have no notion of what good music is anyway), but once I realized how generic it was, how little talent it takes to put together a rap/hip hop song (at least on the radio), and how hollow, meaningless, and empty the lyrics are, I quickly grew out of it.

And thats the problem when you've subjected yourself to a small sample size designed for the lowest common denominator

Hell, I've even tried listening to X's beloved Immortal Technique, but I just can't get into it whatsoever. It sounds exactly the same as the crap on the radio, and the lyrics (the cop killing references in particular) are what get to me the most.

Googling his lyrics doesn't constitute listening to the artists

I hate the genre itself, and the culture that's risin up around it, especially the "f*ck cops", "snitches get stitches", and "gangs=good" aspects of it.

The actions of a few doesn't dictate the actions of an entire culture, especially when hip-hop is such a massive genre

In my opinion, that culture that it perpetuates is bringing and dumbing down society by showing no respect to cops whatsoever

Cops don't deserve respect, especially cops in lower-income neighborhoods

telling people to keep their mouths shut when a crime happens and they know about it,

Koreans prefer to take care of their problems internally. Does that make them a blight on society

and encouraging people to go and shoot someone whenever they give them sh*t.

You need to watch a little less television

I also believe I've professed my love for many other genres outside of rock and metal (reggae, classical, punk, techno from time to time, and a multitude of others),

You've also claimed that Pennywise was better than the Dead Kennedys

but X has yet to show his appreciation for anything outside of rap and hip hop. Tell me X, what other musical styles do you enjoy?

What does that have to do with anything? The difference is he says he doesn't listen to the music and leaves it at that, while you're disparaging an entire race and culture. He coulld have easily said he doesn't listen to country because he thinks that anyone who does is a racist, alcoholic, misogynistic, patriarchal redneck. He didn't

And as for One Of Light's statements, it's not racism, whether you believe it to be or not. He's simply making an observation on a true aspect of reality, unfortunate as it may be. It's not racist if it's the truth.

1) Its not truth

2) Back in the day it was the truth that blacks were less than human. Don't see any racism there


And one more thing.....



You just did right there, skippy.

You're being too literal. But since you lack any sort of reading comprehension, its understandable you missed that

[lk6.200]

Googling his lyrics doesn't constitute listening to the artists

Since I still only have dial up, I have used my friend's computers to look up his stuff and have tried to listen to it. I still can't get into it whatsoever.

Cops don't deserve respect, especially cops in lower-income neighborhoods

You sir, can go f*ck off and die for this statement. I'd like to see you try and do that job and tell me they don't deserve repect. This is the problem with people anymore- they don't respect authority figures anymore, especially people in the emergency services. We put our lives on the line daily to try and protect @ssholes like you who shove us around, spit on us, and show no repect whatsoever. You're quick to blame cops, and to a lesser extent firefighfighters and EMTs for the problems in society, yet who do you whine for when someone steals your sh*t, your house is burning down, or your grandfather is having a heart attack? Don't worry, I'll still come when the fire whistle goes off, but don't expect me to think of you as any less of an @sshole for not showing the respect you should be.

You're being too literal. But since you lack any sort of reading comprehension, its understandable you missed that

You seem to be the one without any reading comprehension as he blatantly blamed white people for the societal ills of black people and other minorities as he has in previous posts.

while you're disparaging an entire race and culture.

How, exactly?

[Technique's Man]

and yet the culture still exists, despite attempts by social leaders, in which you're judged by how tough you are and how many crimes you commit... the option exists to simply NOT COMMIT crimes... but that's not a cultural option in the society we're discussing here...

That’s a gross generalization. It really sucks that you’re looking at this with the idea that percentages of a population mean the entire population is culpable, and a whole group of Americans are living in some debased society, isolated from the country.

Furthermore, the statement about judging people based on crimes you commit is some bullsh*t. People don’t judge themselves based on the severity of the crimes they commit… Nobody does that. Because they’re Americans, people in the inner-cities judge based on money… if they even are that inhuman to judge others the way you’re doing.

One of the biggest problems with this conversation is that you’re looking at it as if these people weren’t people: they were some lab animals you had locked up for experimentation.

The problem with this concept is that the intention of welfare and food stamps is to make it easier to use your actual INCOME to support the family, but the cultural issues we've discussed make that an uncommon occurrence.

part of america's materialistic culture is a part of it, but NOWHERE is that more evident than as a part of hip hop culture, especially with young black males. it sucks, but it's true. Driving a caddy gets you instant respect with a lot of the culture at large.

I think you’re overestimating the amount of money in inner-cities. A lot of these guys running around with fancy things like cars and jewels have either rented them, or (in the case of jewelry) bought fake diamonds and stuff.

Also, I love how you’re blaming a song, but not the audio-visual commercials that seduce people into buying things they can’t actually afford (leading to things like this Recession). That’s what’s going on—people really don’t have that income, but they’re consuming anyways.

Besides which, what are you implying with this talk about “driving a caddy?” Is Cadillac a sh*tty car brand or something? Come on, all the obsession with brand names stems from America’s materialism shoved onto a culture which has suffered through Jim Crow segregation and urban blight.


agreed on the GTA statement, however, it's been proven multiple times that teen pregnancy and underage sex/drug use hit its peak during the rise of hip hop music.

Teenage pregnancy has nothing to do with hip-hop. The only song I’ve heard talk about it was “Brenda Had a Baby,” by 2Pac, and that song DISCOURAGED young women from getting involved in sh*t like that. Meanwhile, the sex/drug use gets plug from Pop and Rock music as well… Come on. Some of these Rock bands don’t promote cannabis, among other things? Why is one of those “Mainstream rap” songs that you love to hate called, “Party Like a Rockstar?” There’s a f*ckin reason for that.

FDR established the current system of borrowing from the Social Security Trust to fund his plethora of social programs...
(socialIST programs perhaps?) And that's the origin of where the Food stamps and Welfare come from, which its sad to say is the bread and butter in a lot of urban areas.

First of all, it’s not Socialist. Second of all, Socialism isn’t evil. Third of all, FDR also eventually killed off most of his social programs for warfare… World War II. Very few things remained. And like I said, FDR didn’t do the only thing that could have really helped the community—eliminate Jim Crow.


However, and nobody ever covers this, schools in rural areas suffer FAR more than these so called inner city schools, and trust me, I went to a school whose largest graduating class ever was 76 people, until my class of 104.

You know, class is the real issue oftentimes, not race. But at the same time… Inner-city schools have more children, which means overcrowded and larger class sizes, in front of ill-trained teachers and inadequate supplies. I wouldn’t say rural areas have FAR worse schools based on that.

So, you really only listen to rap/hip/R&B? If that's the case... that's kind of narrow minded.

You jumped into a conversation rather randomly, and are deviating from it substantially, but you’re my dude, so I’ll handle this civilized (I was kidding in that MSN convo like everyone else, btw). My music choices:

Hip-hop
Indian Bollywood Music
Bhangra
Indian Classical (Karnatic/Hindustani)
Indian Spiritual
A lil bit of RnB/Soul (I can sing decently, so I can appreciate anyone who sings well without Auto-Tune).
A little bit of Reggaeton

The point is that this thread is about the worst thing to happen to music. I have my own musical preferences and likes/dislikes, and that’s acceptable. But I don’t have the arrogance to label what I don’t like as the worst thing to happen to music.

That may be, but he's still entitled to think that it sucks. Hell, I used to like hip hop and rap (when I was about 10 or 11, which doesn't really mean anything because kids that age have no notion of what good music is anyway), but once I realized how generic it was, how little talent it takes to put together a rap/hip hop song (at least on the radio), and how hollow, meaningless, and empty the lyrics are, I quickly grew out of it. Hell, I've even tried listening to X's beloved Immortal Technique, but I just can't get into it whatsoever. It sounds exactly the same as the crap on the radio, and the lyrics (the cop killing references in particular) are what get to me the most.

That was a lotta rambling about nothing. It’s unfortunate you think that cops are the greatest things since sliced bread, because in inner-city neighborhoods, they’re full of sh*t. And ya know, not even inner-city neighborhoods; even cops in suburban areas can get full of themselves.

And don’t pretend you can judge quality in hip-hop…

X seems to think I hate him and anyone else for liking rap, but he swung and missed on that one so many times it's ridiculous. I don't hate him or anyone else for liking it.

No, LK. I think you hate me because you, quite simply, hate me. I wouldn’t expect anything less. I mean, we’ve fought in every single thread we’ve interacted in for the last 4 months. We couldn’t pull that off without finding each other retarded.

I hate the genre itself, and the culture that's risin up around it, especially the "f*ck cops", "snitches get stitches", and "gangs=good" aspects of it. In my opinion, that culture that it perpetuates is bringing and dumbing down society by showing no respect to cops whatsoever, telling people to keep their mouths shut when a crime happens and they know about it, and encouraging people to go and shoot someone whenever they give them sh*t.

First of all, I’ve already gotten into cops up above. Live with the fact that hating cops doesn’t endorse criminal activity. Secondly, snitches are usually people who’ve committed crimes but are too p*ssy to take responsibilities for their actions, and so they try to get other people incriminated to serve less time. That’s a bitch move in any society. Thirdly, not all hip-hop promotes gang activity. Kanye West doesn’t. Jay-Z doesn’t. Immortal Technique doesn’t. La Coka Nostra doesn’t. Brother Ali doesn’t. Jedi Mind Tricks doesn’t. The list is as endless as your stupidity.

I also believe I've professed my love for many other genres outside of rock and metal (reggae, classical, punk, techno from time to time, and a multitude of others), but X has yet to show his appreciation for anything outside of rap and hip hop. Tell me X, what other musical styles do you enjoy?

Jeez I’m sorry LK… I should start making more threads about Shankar Mahadevan and Sri Ganesha Symphonic Chants... One of my favorite albums of all time… I’m sure everyone in GW will be able to pour in on a good discussion about it.

There is no avenue to discuss the music I grew up with. So I take your hate on hip-hop to provide me an avenue to promote it.

And as for One Of Light's statements, it's not racism, whether you believe it to be or not. He's simply making an observation on a true aspect of reality, unfortunate as it may be. It's not racist if it's the truth.

I don’t believe it was racist, either.

You sir, can go f*ck off and die for this statement. I'd like to see you try and do that job and tell me they don't deserve repect. This is the problem with people anymore- they don't respect authority figures anymore, especially people in the emergency services. We put our lives on the line daily to try and protect @ssholes like you who shove us around, spit on us, and show no repect whatsoever. You're quick to blame cops, and to a lesser extent firefighfighters and EMTs for the problems in society, yet who do you whine for when someone steals your sh*t, your house is burning down, or your grandfather is having a heart attack? Don't worry, I'll still come when the fire whistle goes off, but don't expect me to think of you as any less of an @sshole for not showing the respect you should be.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WE DON’T GENERALIZE!!! I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A F*CKIN FIRE FIGHTER AND A MOTHAF*CKIN COP!!!

Cops are the ones who abuse authority. Firefighters and Ambulance drives may do so—by bypassing red lights. ;) But seriously, I have no problems with either of them. And authority is overrated.

You seem to be the one without any reading comprehension as he blatantly blamed white people for the societal ills of black people and other minorities as he has in previous posts.

No… That was actually just an explanation of why inner-cities are f*cked up. I don’t think white people were wrong for wanting better living conditions. I don’t think I can blame families for moving out of the city. It was government policy that failed at the time to enact financial legislation to accompany the Civil Rights bills in the 1960s.

[xxSlipknotxx]

You sir, can go f*ck off and die for this statement. I'd like to see you try and do that job and tell me they don't deserve repect. This is the problem with people anymore- they don't respect authority figures anymore, especially people in the emergency services. We put our lives on the line daily to try and protect @ssholes like you who shove us around, spit on us, and show no repect whatsoever. You're quick to blame cops, and to a lesser extent firefighfighters and EMTs for the problems in society, yet who do you whine for when someone steals your sh*t, your house is burning down, or your grandfather is having a heart attack? Don't worry, I'll still come when the fire whistle goes off, but don't expect me to think of you as any less of an @sshole for not showing the respect you should be.


HAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. There's a reason why people have no respect for fascists like you.

I have nothing against firefighters or EMTs. They don't walk around with guns, don't abuse their authority, and actually are a benefit to society

Also, I don't think either IT or I brought up racism.

And for disparaging a race, look at everything you've said about hip-hop and the generalizations you've made

[Flip-Hkd]

agreed on the GTA statement, however, it's been proven multiple times that teen pregnancy and underage sex/drug use hit its peak during the rise of hip hop music.

My god...as if a songs turns girls on and wets their panties!
jesus.

If anyone finds a song that helsp me get laid, as this guy is stating. Let me know!!

[Fool's Requiem]

I love how this entire thread turned into a troll-flame war simply because people have differing opinions as to what they think was the worst thing that happened to music. I hope you all feel good about that.

Look, I may be ignorant, but at least I'm not waltzing around bashing other peoples opinions because they differ from mine. All I've done is explain to you why I think rap is a bad omen for music as a whole (something this thread was about).

I understand that not all rap is about drugs, sex, and violence towards other people, but you've got to admit that the rap market is completely saturated with that garbage and therefore is the reason so many people generalize rap. You know, the whole "One bad apple ruins the whole batch" kind of thing.

The only people defending rap are the ones that are fans of rap and there's what... 4 of you here? You people have to draw the line somewhere between you being right and you being just an angry fanboy defending your favorite kind of music from all kinds of slander even if it's somewhat true.

Rap isn't perfect. Rock isn't perfect. Country isn't perfect. Get the f**k over it already.

[Technique's Man]

I love how this entire thread turned into a troll-flame war simply because people have differing opinions as to what they think was the worst thing that happened to music. I hope you all feel good about that.

You f*ckin' contributed, so you better feel good with the rest of us.

Look, I may be ignorant, but at least I'm not waltzing around bashing other peoples opinions because they differ from mine. All I've done is explain to you why I think rap is a bad omen for music as a whole (something this thread was about).

I've manage to do that too, without generalizing about an entire genre of music that actually did contribute positive things to music (which I stated a month ago and was agreed by people here).

I understand that not all rap is about drugs, sex, and violence towards other people, but you've got to admit that the rap market is completely saturated with that garbage and therefore is the reason so many people generalize rap. You know, the whole "One bad apple ruins the whole batch" kind of thing.

The only people defending rap are the ones that are fans of rap and there's what... 4 of you here? You people have to draw the line somewhere between you being right and you being just an angry fanboy defending your favorite kind of music from all kinds of slander even if it's somewhat true.

Rap isn't perfect. Rock isn't perfect. Country isn't perfect. Get the f**k over it already.

See here's the problem. If this was a "WHY IS EACH GENRE OF MUSIC IMPERFECT THREAD," your sh*t would fly--all of it. However, this is, what is the worst thing to happen to music. An entire genre of music cannot be the worst thing to happen to music.

Secondly, it has taken a long time for you to fully support your argument, and you were still relying on the whole, "Guns, drugs, and sex" generalization.

Why couldn't you just walk in here and say, "I think the worst thing to happen to music was the mainstream rap industry and it's addiction to promoting vices?" We'd still have a bit of an argument, but it wouldn't have escalated into what it has become. It's when people don't back away from bullsh*t generalizations that trouble brews.

You really do act like a 14 year old.

[Dan]

I like how you completely ignored my other reasons for disliking rap. Good job.

The post I quoted had only that paragraph listing your reasons, aside from another post which said 'I DON'T LIKE RAP LOL'.

[Fool's Requiem]

Secondly, it has taken a long time for you to fully support your argument, and you were still relying on the whole, "Guns, drugs, and sex" generalization.

You'll have to excuse me. I was never the best at arguments. I'll sometimes take part in something and then not realize what I really wanted to say until long after the discussion had ended.

Why couldn't you just walk in here and say, "I think the worst thing to happen to music was the mainstream rap industry and it's addiction to promoting vices?" We'd still have a bit of an argument, but it wouldn't have escalated into what it has become. It's when people don't back away from bullsh*t generalizations that trouble brews.
I really just figured more people would agree with some of my statements by backing them up with better stated statements. Instead I was stuck in fighting 1 man war against a bunch of rap fanboys. I was out numbered.

You really do act like a 14 year old.
I know I do. I find that life is more entertaining if I act more immaturely. If I act like an adult all the time, boredom and depression sets in.

[Technique's Man]

I really just figured more people would agree with some of my statements by backing them up with better stated statements. Instead I was stuck in fighting 1 man war against a bunch of rap fanboys. I was out numbered.

Bullsh*t. Mike!, LK, One Chosen Light, and you, all had the same agenda, and were attacking in different ways. Also, with the exception of me, a lot of these people don't even like rap, or like only a couple of rappers. They were mainly put off by the stereotyping.

[Fool's Requiem]

Bullsh*t. Mike!, LK, One Chosen Light, and you, all had the same agenda, and were attacking in different ways. Also, with the exception of me, a lot of these people don't even like rap, or like only a couple of rappers. They were mainly put off by the stereotyping.

Mike only just came in, I tend to ignore everything LK says, and One Chosen Light was posting walls of text and I didn't bother reading his posts.

Besides, I said no one was backing my statements with better and more stable claims against rap.

[The_Mess]

:shake:

Jolt, you've already well displayed your inability to think, perhaps it's time to stop digging yourself in deeper over a rather subjective topic? Particularly as you've recently displayed this "skill" on a topic concerning science. Or mayhaps it should just become forum policy to quote you as Dolt! for all your posts? You know, as a general public service...

[Demikain]

The only people defending rap are the ones that are fans of rap and there's what... 4 of you here? You people have to draw the line somewhere between you being right and you being just an angry fanboy defending your favorite kind of music from all kinds of slander even if it's somewhat true.
That's bull****. Rap isn't my favourite genre, not even close, I'm much more into rock and its subgenres. I wasn't defending it because I'm an angry fanboy, I was defending it because your arguments were so ridiculous and unfair to the genre as a whole.

[Dan]

That's bull****. Rap isn't my favourite genre, not even close, I'm much more into rock and its subgenres. I wasn't defending it because I'm an angry fanboy, I was defending it because your arguments were so ridiculous and unfair to the genre as a whole.

This post sums up practically everyone other than TM's view.

[Flip-Hkd]

That's bull****. Rap isn't my favourite genre, not even close, I'm much more into rock and its subgenres. I wasn't defending it because I'm an angry fanboy, I was defending it because your arguments were so ridiculous and unfair to the genre as a whole.


amen

[Technique's Man]

Besides, I said no one was backing my statements with better and more stable claims against rap.

There are no "better or more stable claims" to support a lunatic idea that the establishment of one genre of music is the WORST THING THAT HAPPENED TO MUSIC AS A WHOLE.

That's really all the argument is about. I'm an avid listener of hip-hop, but I'm not all out here to convince people to change their minds about the genre. I'm well aware of the fact that a lot of GW people are not gonna be hip-hop fans.

So when you say "rap is crap lololol im a wannabe 14 year old that made a funny now please love me CV," you're entitled that opinion, and while I'll defend hip-hop, I won't be going batsh*t like I did here. I might argue with you a little bit and possibly even bad rep you about it, but I won't devote this amount of energy to the topic, because it's not worth it.

As an aside, if anyone gets curious and wants to know more about certain rappers or better songs than what's usually put on the radio, hit me up. A few people have already done so, and I'm more than happy to suggest things to you. I'm not out here to change minds, but I'm willing to spread the music I enjoy to people who are interested.

[lk6.200]

You also have to realize Jolt! is the same kid that made the statement in a different thread where he said he doesn't believe the universe/Earth is a few billion years old and believes it to only be a few thousand.

X, I don't hate you at all. I think you're a decent person. I just can't see why someone could like a genre of music that glorifies the gang lifestyle. And as for your preferences in Indian music, what would be some good suggestions? I'm open to anything really (with the exception of the afforementioned rap/hip hop). Even if I can't stand the lyrics as they're most likely going to be in a different language from English, I'll at least take the time to appreciate it for the musical quality.

Oops, I meant can't understand. No editing sucks.

[Flip-Hkd]

The whole genre doesn't promote "gang lifestyle" even if some songs from an artist do, not every song. Check out the Damien stories [Damien I, II, and III] from DMX. They're about him being influenced by the devil, and is really interesting.

[Technique's Man]

The whole genre doesn't promote "gang lifestyle" even if some songs from an artist do, not every song. Check out the Damien stories [Damien I, II, and III] from DMX. They're about him being influenced by the devil, and is really interesting.

Oh man, it's funny you bring that up. I was listening to another DMX song, "Slippin'," which operates around the same theme as the "Damien" stories. X is one of the first rappers who got me into Hip-hop, and his introspective story on a lot of his songs almost speak as a moral to the younger generation to NOT repeat the mistakes of crime and violence.

I just can't see why someone could like a genre of music that glorifies the gang lifestyle.

Hip-Hop is much more than the "gang lifestyle." I've learned a lot through hip-hop, and I've experienced a lot through it. There is always a song for whatever mood I'm in; even when I'm sick or depressed, there's something introspective and good to listen to (like "Slippin," or even "Rap or Die" by Crooked I, or "Caught in a Hustle" by Immortal Technique).

And as for your preferences in Indian music, what would be some good suggestions? I'm open to anything really (with the exception of the afforementioned rap/hip hop). Even if I can't stand the lyrics as they're most likely going to be in a different language from English, I'll at least take the time to appreciate it for the musical quality.

Well, the Indian music industry is built on vocals, and not the instrumental stuff; a lot of that is built on synthesizers (unless we're talking about classical, which we'll get to in a minute).

I can try to list songs, but the problem is, I can't type out Hindi in English, so I will likely have misspelled these. However, I'm listing the movie in which the song appeared; movies in Bollywood use original songs.

"Chand Sifarish" Fanaa
"Manmohini Morey" Yuvvraj
"Desh Hai Mera" Swades
"Mahiya Se" Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gam
"Taare Zameen Par" and "Kholo Kholo" Taare Zameen Par

Now, there is also this spiritual album, and it is easily my favorite album ever. It is called "Ganesha Symphonic Chants Experience." That's worth a purchase, if you can find it.

Finally, while I can/do listen to Karnatic Music, I'm not really familiar with notable songs and stuff. I just listen to it when I hear it, really.

[Flip-Hkd]

Oh man, it's funny you bring that up. I was listening to another DMX song, "Slippin'," which operates around the same theme as the "Damien" stories. X is one of the first rappers who got me into Hip-hop, and his introspective story on a lot of his songs almost speak as a moral to the younger generation to NOT repeat the mistakes of crime and violence.

Lol, im at school and just had that song on. I usually listen to one guy at a time, or a few. Was Game, no it's X. But I know what you mean I really like that song.

See LK, the reason why I and a lot of other people like hip hop is because you can usually relate to it, in a serious or joking way. 'Hows it goin down'' [by DMX] is about going after/being with a girl who is still tied to her ex [willingly, or not (baby's father)] i'm sure everyone can think of a moment liking someone who was still stuck on someone else. But as far as relating to songs, DMX has a lot of songs, it's almost like he is giving advice.

[xxSlipknotxx]

1,2 Meet Me Outside meet me outside meet me outside

DMX is fun

[Technique's Man]

You know, I can see DMX walkin outta prison (he's due to be released relatively soon I believe), record an album without the record executive bullsh*t, just pouring his heart out into it, and come up with the grimiest and most introspective hip-hop album ever released.

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist...

[lk6.200]

Well I wouldn't expect him to write an album about an experience like that and not put everything he's got into it.

[Mike!]

I can try to list songs, but the problem is, I can't type out Hindi in English, so I will likely have misspelled these. However, I'm listing the movie in which the song appeared; movies in Bollywood use original songs.

"Chand Sifarish" Fanaa
"Manmohini Morey" Yuvvraj
"Desh Hai Mera" Swades
"Mahiya Se" Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gam
"Taare Zameen Par" and "Kholo Kholo" Taare Zameen Par

Now, there is also this spiritual album, and it is easily my favorite album ever. It is called "Ganesha Symphonic Chants Experience." That's worth a purchase, if you can find it.

Finally, while I can/do listen to Karnatic Music, I'm not really familiar with notable songs and stuff. I just listen to it when I hear it, really.
What? No Daler Mehndi?

[Technique's Man]

He's aight too. More of my father's guy than mine, but there was a song which he did in a Bollywood movie, "Rang De Basanti," that I liked.

You gotta realize, "Tunak Tunak Tun" wasn't a joke in India. :D

[Mike!]

So I understand. I f*cking love the song regardless.

[Flip-Hkd]

Check out his interview from jail on youtube, I definitely think his album will be good. He's got it in him

[Mike!]

Some of you almost sound happy that he went to prison so you'll be able to get a good new album...

[One Of Light]

actually it almost seems to me that the mainstream rap/hip hop industry and its affect on the degradation of the morals of today's youth seems to be a problem to me, but it's not the worst thing that ever happened to music...
that'd be disco, which STILL SUCKS.

however, on a social level, it's sad, because the only thing I've consistently noticed is that hip hop culture perpetuates itself, regardless of the why or the how, it does. And it's nigh-impossible for a young male who is born into that culture to escape without alienation. I've got a friend who is the guitar player in a metal band, and he's black. In the school he grew up in the racism was LITERALLY so bad that teachers used to look at him and go "hey Arch, know what you are?" and he'd go "I"m a ni**er sir."
and this was up north... not sure where exactly but he told me he never knew what caused him more trouble, his skin or where he came from... so here's the deal -
Having not experienced inner city life, I'm gonna step down here and say "that was my opinion, both from dealing with people and from studying the subject in college classes; that's all."
However, the sociological connection between the early nineties rap upswing and the initial rises in teen pregnancy of the time period might be coincidence, they might be connected. Most moderate sociologists think there's a connection, but I've noticed something in my own life - the girls who roll around listening to their rap blasting at the top of their stereos are typically the ones you can take home pretty easily.
Oh and to whomever said Alabama was the problem, you can go f*ck yourself. Because we're not much different anymore than the rest of the f*cking unbalanced, unfair, system in this country - a country that can waste God only knows how many billions of tax dollars on a pointless war on Marijuana, which shouldn't even be illegal, but can't fix our immigration laws or fix the racial inequalities that are simply a matter of MONEY.

[Technique's Man]

Some of you almost sound happy that he went to prison so you'll be able to get a good new album...

No, see, we're hoping that he comes out of prison revitalized, and drops a successful album. Because for him, that would be redemption.

I'm not really gonna dissect One of Light's post, because most of it was still generalizing based on one or two examples he's aware of, while near the end, he seems to agree with a point I made about Civil Rights being as important for equality as money in a capitalist society. So yeah...

[lk6.200]

wall of text

You might wanna try using paragraphs sometime. It really helps when people are trying to read what you've written.

[Brianmaycry]

MTV

[Flip-Hkd]

How? If anything MTV has helped many artists and bands...

[Brianmaycry]

It shows only pop music. The great stuff is only on you tube.

[Flip-Hkd]

So is BET the worst thing that happened too since it doesn't show all genres

[Typhon]

So is BET the worst thing that happened too since it doesn't show all genres

When was the last time you actually seen any music being played on MTV?


"MTV is to music as KFC is to chicken." -Lewis Black

[Flip-Hkd]

lol good one. I'm not exactly supporting MTV but rebutting his argument.

[blitz]

MTV is awful, not for just the artists that go on the network, but for all the people that the network is feeding garbage to. They got a lot of nerve to call themselves a pioneer when they're too god damn conservative to take real chances. I'm sure slipknot will like that one. :D

[Brianmaycry]

When was the last time you actually seen any music being played on MTV?


"MTV is to music as KFC is to chicken." -Lewis Black

I guess you are a lewis black fan. I am also a fan of him. Mtv does not show the good stuff. I vote that mtv should be renamed reality tv.

[Dark Cadence]

The worst thing that ever happened to music was the monopoly that is Radio.

Most stations are owned by Clear Channel. They have created basically a "pay for play" system, where the only music being played is crap from the big 4 record labels pay Clear Channel for their crap to get played. The songs with the most money offered get played--hence the constant 10 songs being played on the radio.

Because of this, there is no new music being played on the radio--aside from a small amount of local stations. That is what is killing music.

[xxSlipknotxx]

MTV is awful, not for just the artists that go on the network, but for all the people that the network is feeding garbage to. They got a lot of nerve to call themselves a pioneer when they're too god damn conservative to take real chances. I'm sure slipknot will like that one. :D

Like rock and roll rebellion turned into Pat Boone sedation?

[Mrmakee]

Dark Cadence, I'd have to disagree. Radio was King back in the day. I think you're thinking of modern radio as opposed to radio ages ago. I'd hav eo say that radio, at a time, was one of the best things to happen to music.

[Dark Cadence]

Dark Cadence, I'd have to disagree. Radio was King back in the day. I think you're thinking of modern radio as opposed to radio ages ago. I'd hav eo say that radio, at a time, was one of the best things to happen to music.

You're right. I should've specified. Modern Radio is killing music.

[The_virus]

The last refuge is college radio stations. The majority of them make a point of playing material you can't hear anywhere else. This includes ethnic themes, a lot of foreign material, and underground stuff. You might not be able to listen to all of it with interest, but you can probably find a weekly show you like.

[lk6.200]

The philly area's radio stations do a fair amount to help lesser known and local artists get noticed. 93.3 WMMR does tend to overplay some stuff (mainly pearl jam and foo fighters), but they have events and a segment in the middle of the day to help support local artists. 94.1 WYSP does so to a lesser extent, but every friday night (or rather saturday morning) from 12-2 am, they play some of the heaviest stuff imaginable on their "Rockers" prgram. Dethklok, Cannibal Corpse, and Necrophagist get decent play on it, but they also play some heavy local bands, too. 104.5 is probably the biggest supporter of local acts, and even encourage local bands to send in submissions to be played on the station every friday during their segment that's directed towards that aspect.

Basically, the pop/hip hop stations are the worst offenders of the pay to play scheme, but the rock stations tend to help out more than you think.

[Spindrift]

The Pittsburgh area stations aren't any better. WDVE, the classic rock station, plays a few local bands and heavily supports The Clarks, our most famous local band. DVE also does the syndicated "Little Steven's Underground Garage" every Sunday night. The more modern rock station (WXDX) does "Pick of the Litter" twice a day to decide whether people want to keep a new song or not. The contemporary Christian station is probably the best because they do play quite a bit of local gospel/rock bands. Country stations also play some local stuff but it's usually kept to two bands.

Every other station - mostly Top 40, "adult contemporary", or anything formats - rarely, if ever, play stuff that isn't nationally known. They will occasionally play some of The Clarks or Donnie Iris, but then even they aren't played very often.

The College and PBS stations only play classical or jazz music, so I don't know if any of that is "new" stuff or not. I have no idea what's happening in either scene.

[One Of Light]

top 40 sucks... that's all I've got to say on this thread now...
that and you're right - modern radio has killed music...
*RIP Les Paul, a true innovator*