"Crack a Bottle" - Did Marshall Mathers Fall Off?

[Suburban Reject]

Aight, so this song was originally leaked in November, and that version had Em spitting verses that ended up being Dre's and Fiddy's... So this song is heavily ghostwritten, but also, I just think this shouldn't have charted like it has. The beat is decent, but it always feels like it's lacking life, and for the most part, all three rappers were a line away from absolute mediocrity. Like, I can usually listen to a mainstream rap song and predict its chart success with some precision, but this song had "FLOP" written all over it. Instead, it's already top ten on the Rap Singles chart at Billboard.

Considering both Dre and Shady have been on such a long hiatus, and are notorious perfectionists, I was disappointed. Plus, Em has gone on record to say that this album will be more upbeat and happy, which indicates more of this.

So, I know there's a substantial Eminem fan base on GW. Do people like the new single? Or has Eminem began to fall out?

[Civil Disobedient]

I heard this on the radio the other day, it came across as really weak but catchy. Not really what I was expecting. Detox, if it ever gets released, is going to be terrible.

[Bird Flu]

I thought it was alright. Not what I expected from Eminem.

[Suburban Reject]

See, the whole track just seemed so uninspired lyrically. I mean, the best verse is the last one, which is Shady's second, and this comes at about the 6th minute of the song. Meanwhile, Dre was clearly reciting ghostwritten sh*t, and he was doing so robotically. Meanwhile, Fifty's been putting work in again, so much so that internet gangstas are starting to f*ck with him again, but this joint contains his weakest verse in the last six months. Then again, it's Fiddy; what was I expecting?

And I think there it is: Expectation. I expect so much more from Em and Dre. I expect insane lyrics, emotions, and creative concepts. I mean, maybe things are doin well for him now. Maybe he can't do a "Stan," or a "F*ckin Crazy." Maybe he isn't quite as hated on anymore, so "White America" might not apply anymore. Maybe he doesn't need to diss anyone. But there's still so much more to him that we've seen over the years, and I mean, we've even seen "Shake that Ass," and that was pretty good lyricism. Comparatively, this is a huge step back.

[Mag Launcher]

Well, Em peaked with Marshall Mathers LP in my opinion. Encore had a few good songs, but he has strayed from what made him great. His rap about sorrow and despair (SSLP), hate (MMLP), and redemption (Encore). Now he kind of blends in to the rest of generic rap out there. I still listen to his older albums on the daily. They'll never get old, and I'll never forget his golden years.

[Tequila Sunrise]

I had no idea this was a new single, in the case that it is, bad choice. Just didn't seem to be that catchy that I'd want to hear it again any time soon. Its a decent track, but still lacks in the punch that Em usually delivers. Dre didnt sound that bad to me though, seemed same ol' really. Lookin forward to Detox. Has there been any teasers or mixtapes for it yet?

[Claude Kenni]

I think Eminem fell off after Encore. The last record I remotely enjoyed from him was Re-Up (which lyrically was kinda watered down).

I used to be a hardcore Em fan when I was younger, at the turn of the millenium when he was in his prime. You gotta think of it like; he's made sooooo many albums, songs, mixtapes, produced, and even produced tracks for himself and other rappers. Like what more could he possibly do? I seriously doubt he'll ever be as good as he was in his prime. But he doesn't even need to make music anymore, he's got enough money to sit on for the rest of his life. Not dissing the man, I still dig Eminem, I just don't like his new stuff, that's all.

All good things eventually come to an end. I don't think we'll see the real Slim Shady he used to be anymore.

[Technique's Man]

You know, it's funny you say that.

To me, I've never seen hip-hop as something analogous to basketball or football... as in there's only a 10 year time frame. I think that only exists in terms of commercial appeal, if you are a commercial artist. I mean, technically, Rakim is still tryna put out work at the moment; and he claims he will be dropping his first album in well over 20 years this summer. KRS-One has released albums, as have Big Daddy Kane and Kool G Rap, during recent days. Even Jaz-O came out and responded to a Jay-Z subliminal shot with 2 blistering songs.

Ultimately, if you really have a message, or something you need to convey to people, you cannot be extinguished. To be unable to do so indicates that you weren't much of an MC to begin with. I don't think there's ever a point where you've exhausted the amount of things you could do, as there's always something new to talk about. And besides, I don't think there's a prime in quality of writing (Though the longer you get involved in the industry, the more corrupted you seem to become, and Shady is a good example of this). I guess you could become exhausted in the sense of energy, and be unable to put up new material, but that seems more of a Dre issue than an Em issue.

Though your post is a little odd... What exactly came in between Encore and the Re-Up? What are the joints of his that you didn't like?

[Claude Kenni]

I just didn't like Encore too much. Didn't have the same feel as his older stuff and it felt rushed. I did however like "Toy Soldiers" because he got into detail about the whole JaRule/Benzino beef, and it seemed like he was trying to redeem himself. To me, that song was well put together.

And I was always a longtime Eminem fan, so I can't help but check out his new stuff, even if I don't like it. I heard "You don't know" on the radio and it was real catchy. I ended up buying the album for like 5 dollars on Amazon a year later after it's release 'cause I was skeptical about it since I only happened to hear one song I liked and wasn't sure if I'd dig the whole album. I also wanted to see if there was any mention or songs about Proof since he was recently slain at the time. I did however find it to be rather decent (suprisingly). I always enjoyed his mixtape stuff a lot better (which ironically the album was originally intended to be), to me he's better at battle rapping; case in the point The Re-up. Though I was somewhat dissapointed because D-12 (with the exception of Bizzare) wasn't on there that much and at times it seemed like he was just trying to promote Cashis and the other Atlanta based rappers he had signed to Shady (wasn't really digging their stuff).

My favorite song on there was "No Apologies".

[Flip-Hkd]

Ultimately, if you really have a message, or something you need to convey to people, you cannot be extinguished.

Yes you can. And that's what happened, his message WAS conveyed, and he did extinguish. Ok maybe not completely but I think after he got past the stage of expressing his hard life and hate for everyone, he kinda fell off the map. get what im saying?

And about that last part, I think Em still has his energy, just not his motivation or inspiration [like his past] so he is having trouble "harnessing" that energy.

Another idea, back when he was at his biggest, I think it's fair to say that speaking out [I guess you could call it that] wasn't as big as it is now. Now it seems every rapper has a message, has a hate, and speaks out. Back when Em did it you didn't see that kind of stuff all over the place, so it made a bigger impact.

[Technique's Man]

I just didn't like Encore too much. Didn't have the same feel as his older stuff and it felt rushed. I did however like "Toy Soldiers" because he got into detail about the whole JaRule/Benzino beef, and it seemed like he was trying to redeem himself. To me, that song was well put together.

Oh, ok. I thought your first post said that after Encore he fell off (not including Encore). Thanks for the clarification. Though I did like "Mockingbird" off that album, because that's really who Marshall Mathers is, and it was a really revealing moment for him, and most importantly, it came from the heart.

I guess I might as well put in the fact that I like Eminem's work mainly because he was so different. He was pioneering, but I'm not a diehard Eminem supporter; he's not in my top 5 (living, DoA, whatever), he probably isn't even in my top 10, and when it comes to Caucasian rappers, Ill Bill and Vinnie Paz are better in my mind. I'd be willing to make the argument that DMX (a guy who I listened to as I began getting into hip-hop) is better than Em.

Hence, if I were to go back, the thing that Eminem brought was crazy lyrical abilities and shock statements of epic proportions. And I think he brought both in Encore just as much as he did in many other albums; perhaps the only thing he did was drop the violence level a bit.

And I was always a longtime Eminem fan, so I can't help but check out his new stuff, even if I don't like it. I heard "You don't know" on the radio and it was real catchy. I ended up buying the album for like 5 dollars on Amazon a year later after it's release 'cause I was skeptical about it since I only happened to hear one song I liked and wasn't sure if I'd dig the whole album. I also wanted to see if there was any mention or songs about Proof since he was recently slain at the time. I did however find it to be rather decent (suprisingly). I always enjoyed his mixtape stuff a lot better (which ironically the album was originally intended to be), to me he's better at battle rapping; case in the point The Re-up. Though I was somewhat dissapointed because D-12 (with the exception of Bizzare) wasn't on there that much and at times it seemed like he was just trying to promote Cashis and the other Atlanta based rappers he had signed to Shady (wasn't really digging their stuff).

"You Don't Know" sorta indicated a direction where Em's music was going; upbeat, catchy tunes with party-esque lyrics which threw in a touch of violence. However, the reason why I liked "You Don't Know" more than "Crack a Bottle" is because Em spit much better on "You Don't Know." His flow and energy was better and his rhymes were sharper. The beat also seemed more alive, and there was no ghost-written Dre bringing it down.

And because it was supposed to be a mixtape, and not an album, there was no D-12. Re-Up was just supposed to be a way to build buzz for guys like Bobby Creekwater, Ca$his, and Stat Quo, who had been on the label for a bit (in Quo's case, for a really looooong time) and hadn't dropped anything. I dunno about Creek, but Stat Quo, now that he's finally gotten out of the Aftermath label, is putting out work, and it's actually pretty good. If I were you, I'd check out his Bailout mixtape or his Quo City mixtape.

Meanwhile, battle rapping is when you're actually in front of somebody and you and the other guy exchange verses attacking each other. You cannot put out a hip-hop album solely on the strengths of battle-rapping alone. That's why guys like Jin are some broke and insignificant mothaf*ckas. You need concepts and full length songs. Of course, battle-rapping helped guys like Eminem, Immortal Technique, Diabolic, and Serius Jones sharpen their lyrics considerably, as you need to be aggressive on the mic to hold a battle-rap crowd in the palm of your hand. In short: the Re-Up has nothing to do with battle-rapping.

Yes you can. And that's what happened, his message WAS conveyed, and he did extinguish. Ok maybe not completely but I think after he got past the stage of expressing his hard life and hate for everyone, he kinda fell off the map. get what im saying?

That's, rather sadly, not much of a message. And again, to give you an example of MCs who continue to tick and put out albums in this day and age, you can see KRS-One. I mean, he's not commercially recognized (not like he was particularly living filthy rich in the 80s either), but I would never suggest that he's "fallen off," because he is lyrically strong, and he's bringing a vibrant message.

I think with Eminem, it's a lot of commercial manipulation, via exposure to the industry. But I will agree on the following:

And about that last part, I think Em still has his energy, just not his motivation or inspiration [like his past] so he is having trouble "harnessing" that energy.

However...
Another idea, back when he was at his biggest, I think it's fair to say that speaking out [I guess you could call it that] wasn't as big as it is now. Now it seems every rapper has a message, has a hate, and speaks out. Back when Em did it you didn't see that kind of stuff all over the place, so it made a bigger impact.

There is nobody who expresses his hate quite like Shady did. There probably never will be.

And "speaking out" and "messages" are non-existent in commercial hip-hop at the moment; in fact, it might have been more prevalent back in the days of Shady than now. With the underground, messages have always been there.

Edit: Now might also be the time to mention that "Crack a Bottle" is officially #1 on the Billboards... a truly head-scratching event.

[Fei Fong Wong]

"Well I do pop pillz and keep my tube socks filled, and I pop the same sh!t that got 2pac killed. Spit game to these ho's like a soap opera episode, then I punch a girl in her nose til the whole face explodes." - that's when Eminem was mad sick! Wtf happened to him?!?

[feelDAbass]

naw, i dont think he fell off, but i definitely think he grew up a lot more. he will probably lose / lost some fans, but i never was a huge fan of eminem until i hear that song, so i think he'll grow a new fan base.