magnezone or lanturn

[starocean55]

who do you think is a better pokemon magneozne or lanturn

[Cytosine]

Here we go again:

They serve quite different roles and have different type combos and we can only properly judge which is better if we see the rest of your team/movesets/everything. Also, you only need to create one thread if you have several questions.

[starocean55]

okay well im working on an all electric team
so far i have

zapdos
level 100
thunderbolt
drill peack
fly
i dont what the last move is yet

shinx working to get a luxray

electrike working to get manetric

raikou
level 100
shadow ball
thunderbolt
charge beam
dig

electivire-still working on

now i dont no if i sohuld have lanturn or magnezone

[Cytosine]

Magnezone would probably be better, but I don't really see the point of having either. Also, Luxray is kind of awful.

[starocean55]

well what pokes sohuld i replace and with what (they have to be electric type tho)

[SuperSimon]

Rotom might work to get one weakness out of the way

[Cytosine]

Mono electric would probably work with something like Zapdos/Raikou/Jolteon/Manectric/Electivire/Magnezone or Pikachu or some other random non-bad electric type.

[starocean55]

whats wrong with luxray?

[Chris!]

Too slow, fairly weak moves...

Yeah. Luxray isn't really all that good at, uh, much of anything. Electivire attacks on the physical side better, and even Raichu outplays him in UU.

[starocean55]

what about if i Ev trained luxray and find one with a nature that raises speed

[Little_Dragon]

Whatt!!!! I always found my Luxray pretty good. He pwns.... And mines kinda fast. :twitch: Also I think both Magnezone and Lanturn is good... Lanturn just kinda pwns rock pokemon with like Surf or something. And kill its own water friends. Lol.

[Cytosine]

A lot of water pokemon can 'pwn' rock pokemon with Surf. Luxray isn't very fast, only really compared to lower level stuff.

starocean55, it doesn't matter if you EV trained it and found a good nature and stuff, because doing so for a better pokemon would be a lot more advantageous.

[Chris!]

Lanturn is a pretty cool Special sponge, as he resists Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, takes nearly nothing from Grass Knot, and only fears the somewhat rare Earth Power on the Special side.

Luxray EV trained may be faster than something not ev trained, but in competitive, everything's ev trained, so it'd be, you know, just as faster as it would be un EV trained.

[Bulbasaurus Rex]

Lanturn is a pretty cool Special sponge, as he resists Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, takes nearly nothing from Grass Knot, and only fears the somewhat rare Earth Power on the Special side.You forgot about Solarbeam, which while not terribly common, still has a decent amount of use among Sunny Day users.

[Mr. Jack]

Lanturn would be a good asset to your team, seeing that everyone (- Zapdos) is weak to Ground. Slap a Surf/Hydro Pump on him to take out Ground types. Another good idea would be to give Electivire Ice Punch... and can Riachu learn Surf or not?

[Rawrh.]

I think if you evolved a PBR or Poketopia Pikachu the Raichu would have surf. I dnno about PBR but Poketopia has Volt Tackle as well :)

[Chris!]

The only Surf Pikachu / Raichu are from PBR (Poketopia), and they're all Hardy natured, sadly. Volt Tackle you can get from the same Pikachu or you can breed a female Pikachu with something while it's holding a Light Ball.

[SuperSimon]

Why would you want surf and light ball on the same set though. Even with lightball it needs all the power it can get.

[dre]

For an all-electric, he wants to be able to take out Rhyperiors and things that spell instant doom. Makes sense to me. Volt Tackle makes even more sense, since everyone's gonna expect a Thunderbolt to be the Electric move of choice. Making something Physical worth it.

For right now, there doesn't seem to be any way to get Surf on a good Pikachu.

[Chris!]

Why would you want surf and light ball on the same set though. Even with lightball it needs all the power it can get.

No, you breed it while holding Light Ball to get Volt Tackle. And yeah, on Pikachu Light Ball makes his Attack and Special Attack awesome, reaching into the 420 range.

[starocean55]

where do i get light ball and can anyother pokemon learn volt tackel besides pikachu and richu

[Sini]

For right now, there doesn't seem to be any way to get Surf on a good Pikachu.
I just wondered if anyone has tried Pokémon Box Ruby&Sapphire prize, the Surf Pichu? At least the False Swipe Swablus I've received from Box have always had different natures. But, it'd require 1499 stored Pokémon, then the egg should be hatched in a GBA game, and then transported to D/P. The two latter steps are not so hard, but the first one... I'm not that insane.

where do i get light ball and can anyother pokemon learn volt tackel besides pikachu and richu
Ball is held by wild Pikachu, but it's rare. Pikachu can be found in Trophy Garden, but I'm not sure if those hold Light Balls. (Hopefully that didn't sound pervert.)

No, only the Pichu line can learn VT. Smeargle can sketch it, though, and learn the move that way.

[Chris!]

Since you can't Pal Park something with an HM move, even the PBRS Pichu can't be used without deleting Surf.

[Bulbasaurus Rex]

No, you breed it while holding Light Ball to get Volt Tackle. And yeah, on Pikachu Light Ball makes his Attack and Special Attack awesome, reaching into the 420 range.That only makes those stats a letter better than evolving it into Raichu, while Raichu has much better HP and defenses and a little better speed. Overall, a Raichu is superior to even a Pikachu holding a Light Ball.

[Cytosine]

Pikachu's offencive stats hit the roof with Life Orb, and it is generally better than Raichu.

[Seerow]

It depends on your preferences. Pikachu has the defensive ability of a piece of paper (it has a 10% or so chance of being OHKO'd by Adamant 252 Attack non-CB Slaking's Scratch), but can have an Atk stat exceeding that of Adamant max Atk Salamence/Metagross/Tyranitar, or a SAtk stat exceeding that of Modest max SAtk PorygonZ. Raichu can take hits slightly better (but still has crap Defence and HP) and better Speed, but lacks in the offensive department.

Also, Cheese Warrior, Pikachu can't hold Light Ball and Life Orb at the same time. :P

[Cytosine]

I'm really not sure why I put Life Orb instead of Light Ball, I think my mind was wandering. Also, lol @ Scratch being able to OHKO Pikachu. :D

[starocean55]

Why would you want surf and light ball on the same set though. Even with lightball it needs all the power it can get.



how does light ball get power? and is light ball better or life orb

[Chris!]

Light Ball double's Pikachu's attacking stats, raising them to around 420 or so. Unfortunately, this means he can't use a Life Orb like PorygonZ can (whom pikachu is actually quite similar to thanks to Nasty Plot/Agility access), but think of the coolness!

[starocean55]

does light ball only work for pikachu

[Cytosine]

Yes, Light Ball only works for Pikachu.

Just a question, would it have been against the rules for me to simply have put 'yes' in this post and nothing else?

[dre]

By only Pikachu, it means just that. Pichu and Raichu get absolutely no benefit from holding one.

For the most part, you should probably give up on Surf, to be honest. For Pikachu on an all-electric team, try:

Hasty +252 Speed +252 Attack

Focus Punch
Volt Tackle/Thunderbolt (I like Volt Tackle better)
Grass Knot/HP Ice, Fire, or Fighting
Substitute

Sub does a few things. First, a 90 Speed is faster than almost anything that afflicts status (Grass types with Leech Seed, anyone using Spore/Hypnosis, most other Thunder Wavers, Umbreon, Milotic, etc). Second, Focus Punch cracks Blissey in the jaw along with anything that might switch in on you (Slaking, Tyranitar, Weavile with Taunt, Magnezone, Lucario, etc) and still does a more than decent hit on Garchomp, Rhyperior, and other guys that say no to Electric attacks.

I like Grass Knot because it gets Tyranitar, Rhyperior, and Swampert, but since you have an Electric move for most water-types (as well as Flyers) you can switch this move out for something you'd use a little more often.

Volt Tackle is nice and does more damage than Thunderbolt but I like Thunderbolt on someone using Substitute better (the point of the Sub is to not die and Volt Tackle helps you die .. you see where this is going).

[Chris!]

You can run ThunderPunch if you want a physical attack with no recoil. Which you might.

[starocean55]

so what wpuld be better pikachu with light ball or raichu with life orb or aometing?

[Cytosine]

IMO I'd prefer Pikachu with Light Ball, but it's up to you really.

[starocean55]

so they are pretty much even?

[SuperSimon]

Well as said Raichu is Bulkyer, but Pikachu has more power, with out life orb side effect.

[Chris!]

That only makes those stats a letter better than evolving it into Raichu, while Raichu has much better HP and defenses and a little better speed. Overall, a Raichu is superior to even a Pikachu holding a Light Ball.

Uh, are you serious? Raichu's max SAtk is 308. Pikachu's is roughly 420. That's a gigantic difference. Their HP is identical, while Raichu has better defenses but still can't take a hit. The difference between Base 90 and Base 100 isn't too big; both need 0 EVs to work very well with Agility, 100ers usually run a neutral nature while 90's run a boosting nature to beat 100s. Pikachu is of course much harder to use due to crap defenses, but Raichu is not superior to Light Ball Pikachu. Remember, it's not just the base stat that doubles, it's the whole stat (so it's not just equivalent to it being Base 100, it's actually equivalent to base 150 granted with no item)

[starocean55]

what is a good nature for pikachu

[Seerow]

Timid or Jolly, depending on whether you're using special attacks (Timid) or physical attacks (Jolly).

[Chris!]

If you're using both physical and special attacks, Hasty works, thoguh you'll be even more suceptible to damage.

[Bulbasaurus Rex]

Uh, are you serious? Raichu's max SAtk is 308. Pikachu's is roughly 420. That's a gigantic difference. Their HP is identical, while Raichu has better defenses but still can't take a hit. The difference between Base 90 and Base 100 isn't too big; both need 0 EVs to work very well with Agility, 100ers usually run a neutral nature while 90's run a boosting nature to beat 100s. Pikachu is of course much harder to use due to crap defenses, but Raichu is not superior to Light Ball Pikachu. Remember, it's not just the base stat that doubles, it's the whole stat (so it's not just equivalent to it being Base 100, it's actually equivalent to base 150 granted with no item)The doubling of the entire stat compared to doubling the base stat is only different if you EV train the stat and/or boost the stat with the nature, and if you do do that, it still doesn't outshine all of Raichu's improvements.

Their HP is nowhere near the same. Pikachu has base 35 HP, while Raichu has base 60 HP. The HP improvement for Raichu alone pretty much matches up with the Attack/Special Attack improvement for Pikachu (percentage wise), while Raichu also has better defenses and slightly better speed, making it the better overall fighter.

Raichu may not be able to take hits well compared to a lot of final evolutions, but it can still do it tons better than Pikachu.

[SuperSimon]

It can do better at taking hits but not at giving them out. It cant take hits well enough for it to matter t hough.

[Da Champion]

I dont really like either one but Lanturn

[Chris!]

Oh yeah. Note to self: 211 =/= 261 HP. Whoops.

Well, as you can see Pikachu and Raichu are both a bit debated. While Raichu actually has time to Nasty Plot and requires EV training a little less than Pikachu does, Pikachu works like a Choice Banded super beast that just slaughters things if you're ballsy and extremely good at prediction. Raichu does have Life Orb to make up for its losses (1.3 * 308 = 400.4, just short of Pikachu but with recoil) as well as the ability to actually be able to use Nasty Plot without immediately dying.

So for your team I'd say Raichu; that is, if you don't want to use Manectric, Jolteon, or Zapdos for the same thing. Lanturn should be your Special sponge, Zapdos and Magnezone for physical hits. Manectric/Raikou and Jolteon for your sweeper types, and Rotom for status and some attacking too.

[starocean55]

whats better a pikachu that is physical or a special pikachu

[Chris!]

It's hard to say. Physical Pikachu (with Grass Knot for Hippowdon and company) isn't easily walled and has a slightly higher stat, but you're stuck with either Thunderpunch, which is nearly always worse than Thunderbolt, or Volt Tackle, which will probably kill yourself using. Special Pikachu, on the other hand, is walled by Blissey and Snorlax, but has more moves to choose from and Focus Punch access. Then again, you need max Attack on a Pikachu to OHKO Blissey with Focus Punch, so that'd leave nothing for Speed if you maxed both, which you have to or else you're using a worse Raichu for sure. In that case, a mixed sweeper with Agility could work, but getting time to use said Agility is extremely hard if not impossible. So it's really a toss up, and I think I'd go Raichu honestly since at least you can take a resisted hit or something.

[Bulbasaurus Rex]

Just don't use the current moveset of Ash's Pikachu (Thunderbolt, Volt Tackle, Iron Tail, Quick Attack). While it's pretty good in an RP environment, it's not very good in competitive battling.

By the way, do you think Ash's Pikachu swallowed a Light Ball before it was given to Ash? That might explain a few things.

[starocean55]

i was thinking thunderbolt volt tackel and grass not and dig

[blhuud]

the only good moves that you have are t-bolt and grass knot. WTH is the point of two electric move? And why dig? You'll just get switched to a flier or get EQed. It's really not worth it. i found that out the hard way.

[starocean55]

so do you have any sugestions?

[blhuud]

pikachu/riachu
timid nature
light ball/life orb
t-blot
grass knot
hp ice (for dragons)
filler(likely nasty plot)

[Seerow]

By the way, do you think Ash's Pikachu swallowed a Light Ball before it was given to Ash? That might explain a few things.
No. I also think that trying to pick out references between the TV program and the games is not a very good idea, because the two are not the same. :tease:

Do not use Dig whatever you do. Any move that requires two turns to use is basically useless because you give your opponent a chance to switch in something resistant to your chosen attack.

Recommended moveset is Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Substitute, and a filler (Encore, Nasty Plot, Brick Break, and Focus Punch if you're good at predicting aren't bad ideas). If you want to use a mixed set, use Brick Break in the filler slot and you can switch Volt Tackle in over Thunderbolt if you want to. If you can get a good Hidden Power Ice, use it in the filler on the special set or you can use it over Grass Knot if you want on the mixed set.