Should I use...

[Shur'tugal]

With my team should I keep Weavile and Cress or get rig of them and get lissey and Skarmory?

This is my Current team:


Infernape@Expert Belt
Jolly nature

Flare Blitz
Thunder Punch
Close Combat
Earthquake

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

*Physical sweeper*



Dragonite@Lum Berry
Jolly nature

Outrage
Fire Punch
Dragon Dance
Earthquake

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

*Physical sweeper*


Weavile@Expert Belt
Jolly nature

Ice Punch
Night Slash
Brick Break
Aerial Ace

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP


*Physical sweeper*


Cresselia@Leftovers
Relaxed nature

Toxic
Charge Beam
Ice Beam
Moonlight

EVs: 248 HP 116sp def 116 Def 24sp att


*Mixed wall*


Kingdra@Damp Rock
Modest nature

Surf
Ice Beam
Dragon Pulse
Rain Dance

EVs: 252sp att 168speed 58HP 16def 16sp def

*Special sweeper*


Electivre@Expert Belt
Adamant nature

Ice Punch
Cross Chop
Earthquake
Thunder Punch

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

*Physical sweeper*


These are the Blissey and Skarmory I'll use


Blissey@Leftovers
Bold nature

Toxic
Stealth Rock
Ice Beam
Softboiled

EVs: 252HP 252def 4sp att


Skarmory@Leftovres
Careful nature

Spikes
Whirlwind
Brave Bird
Roost


EVs: 248HP 116att 116sp def 28def


I like Cress because its a great mixed wall and sp sweeper and weaviles fast but skarmory and Blissey can do alot of damage with Spikes and Stealth Rock.

[Chris!]

With my team should I keep Weavile and Cress or get rig of them and get lissey and Skarmory?

This is my Current team:


Infernape@Expert Belt
Jolly nature

Flare Blitz
Thunder Punch
Close Combat
Earthquake

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

Uh, use Stone Edge over Thunderpunch since you already have Flare Blitz for Skarmory and CC outdamages TP on Bulky Waters. I guess I can understand for Gyara leads, but still. You might want Swords Dance for the late game.

*Physical sweeper*



Dragonite@Lum Berry
Jolly nature

Outrage
Fire Punch
Dragon Dance
Earthquake

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

This set is badass.
*Physical sweeper*


Weavile@Expert Belt
Jolly nature

Ice Punch
Night Slash
Brick Break
Aerial Ace

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

Drop AA, since CB Hera can be countered by Dragonite and Scarf Hera by Cress. Put on Pursuit for revenge kills.
*Physical sweeper*


Cresselia@Leftovers
Relaxed nature

Toxic
Charge Beam
Ice Beam
Moonlight

EVs: 248 HP 116sp def 116 Def 24sp att


*Mixed wall*
You really need more than one wall, but this isn't exactly a stall team, so Blisskarm isn't necessarily your best option. The number one rule of walls is to not stall on a team of sweepers.

If you keep Cress, which you probably should, move more to SAtk and give it Modest. With 120/120/130 Defenses you should focus more on actually doing damage.


Kingdra@Damp Rock
Modest nature

Surf
Ice Beam
Dragon Pulse
Rain Dance

EVs: 252sp att 168speed 58HP 16def 16sp def

If you're giving him Rain Dance let something else benefit from it...
*Special sweeper*


Electivre@Expert Belt
Adamant nature

Ice Punch
Cross Chop
Earthquake
Thunder Punch

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP
Like Electivire. Thunderbolt is better than Thunderpunch for a bajillion reasons (higher BP, Skarmory killing, etc), so widen the lead with a likely 100% accurate Thunder.
*Physical sweeper*


These are the Blissey and Skarmory I'll use


Blissey@Leftovers
Bold nature

Toxic
Stealth Rock
Ice Beam
Softboiled

EVs: 252HP 252def 4sp att
Sorry, no. Your team isn't trying to stall, so Toxic makes no sense. SR is decent support, but without Seismic Toss your Blissey is wasting space on a quick team like this. Drop Ice Beam if you have to.


Skarmory@Leftovres
Careful nature

Spikes
Whirlwind
Brave Bird
Roost

Drop the SDef EVs. You won't be surviving much with them, plus Skarm's def, unlike Bliss's SDef, isn't practically unbreakable.

EVs: 248HP 116att 116sp def 28def


I like Cress because its a great mixed wall and sp sweeper and weaviles fast but skarmory and Blissey can do alot of damage with Spikes and Stealth Rock.

And that's it. It's a mediocre team, but adding stallers is NOT what you should be doing. Have a nice day.

[Shur'tugal]

Originally Posted by Chris is me
With my team should I keep Weavile and Cress or get rig of them and get lissey and Skarmory?

This is my Current team:


Infernape@Expert Belt
Jolly nature

Flare Blitz
Thunder Punch
Close Combat
Earthquake

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

Uh, use Stone Edge over Thunderpunch since you already have Flare Blitz for Skarmory and CC outdamages TP on Bulky Waters. I guess I can understand for Gyara leads, but still. You might want Swords Dance for the late game.

*Physical sweeper*



Dragonite@Lum Berry
Jolly nature

Outrage
Fire Punch
Dragon Dance
Earthquake

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

This set is badass.
*Physical sweeper*


Weavile@Expert Belt
Jolly nature

Ice Punch
Night Slash
Brick Break
Aerial Ace

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP

Drop AA, since CB Hera can be countered by Dragonite and Scarf Hera by Cress. Put on Pursuit for revenge kills.

Ahh Hello AA is good because if they don't know Weavile they will switch to a fighting type.
*Physical sweeper*


Cresselia@Leftovers
Relaxed nature

Toxic
Charge Beam
Ice Beam
Moonlight

EVs: 248 HP 116sp def 116 Def 24sp att


*Mixed wall*
You really need more than one wall, but this isn't exactly a stall team, so Blisskarm isn't necessarily your best option. The number one rule of walls is to not stall on a team of sweepers.

If you keep Cress, which you probably should, move more to SAtk and give it Modest. With 120/120/130 Defenses you should focus more on actually doing damage.

1. This is a wall Cress so I need a defensive nature.

2. This is the only Cress I have.

3. I need defensive EVs


Kingdra@Damp Rock
Modest nature

Surf
Ice Beam
Dragon Pulse
Rain Dance

EVs: 252sp att 168speed 58HP 16def 16sp def

If you're giving him Rain Dance let something else benefit from it...
*Special sweeper*

Thats what Damp Rock is for


Electivre@Expert Belt
Adamant nature

Ice Punch
Cross Chop
Earthquake
Thunder Punch

EVs: 252att 252speed 4HP
Like Electivire. Thunderbolt is better than Thunderpunch for a bajillion reasons (higher BP, Skarmory killing, etc), so widen the lead with a likely 100% accurate Thunder.
*Physical sweeper*

I might use Thunder. I'll think about that.


These are the Blissey and Skarmory I'll use


Blissey@Leftovers
Bold nature

Toxic
Stealth Rock
Ice Beam
Softboiled

EVs: 252HP 252def 4sp att
Sorry, no. Your team isn't trying to stall, so Toxic makes no sense. SR is decent support, but without Seismic Toss your Blissey is wasting space on a quick team like this. Drop Ice Beam if you have to.


Skarmory@Leftovres
Careful nature

Spikes
Whirlwind
Brave Bird
Roost

Drop the SDef EVs. You won't be surviving much with them, plus Skarm's def, unlike Bliss's SDef, isn't practically unbreakable.

EVs: 248HP 116att 116sp def 28def


I like Cress because its a great mixed wall and sp sweeper and weaviles fast but skarmory and Blissey can do alot of damage with Spikes and Stealth Rock.

What you posted is Green.

My replies are in Orange.

[Chris!]

Uh, just because a pokemon is defensive doesn't absolutely require a defensive nature and EVs. If all you needed for a good defensive pokemon was Defense, Steelix would be a fantastic physical wall.

Honestly, half the time Weaville is countered by Mach Punch. The other half of the time you will either OHKO something flimsy like Medicham or will slightly scratch something like Hariyama.

[Shur'tugal]

Not many people use Mach punch.

They prefer Close Combat and Sky Uppercut.

Its good to have def nature and EVs. Its makes it harder to kill.


Originally posted by Chris is me
Sorry, no. Your team isn't trying to stall, so Toxic makes no sense.


Toxic is for slowley helping me killing my foe. Not stalling, thats what Thunder Wave is for.

And since Weavile isn't going to last long should I replace it with something. If so what?

[Chris!]

Toxic is for slowley helping me killing my foe. Not stalling, thats what Thunder Wave is for.

And since Weavile isn't going to last long should I replace it with something. If so what?

Uh, stalling = slowly killing your foe. That's where the phrase "Toxistalling" comes from. And your team is by no means slow. So either drop your sweepers for more bulky ones and run lots of walls with Spikes support or make a decent "sweeping" team. Your team needs to work together to be good.

[Shur'tugal]

I know thats what makes it good.

Last 2 questoins.

1. Should I use Thunder on Electivre?


2.Should I replace Weavile for something that will last longer?

[ngm]

1. I would keep Thunderpunch.
2. Maybe replace Weaville for Blissey. Try out your team and see which works better for you.

[Pencil Thief]

It is easy to try out your team on Shoddy Battle. That way you won't build your whole team and then realize it isn't working for you.

The advice I would give is to test out all the ideas you have on Shoddy, and see what works for you.

[Shur'tugal]

Could someone give me a link to Shoddy and what to do?

Thanks.

And if Weavile doesn't work what should I use instead? I was thinking Skarmory:

Spikesx3+Brave Bird+Roost=Whirlwind=alot of Damage.

[pokemon-12]

You could try this Swampert:


Swampert@Leftovers
-Impish-
Avalanche
Waterfall
Stealth Rock
Roar

[Comrade]

Pokemon-12... what does swampert have to do with anything???




!!!!WOO-HOO!!!! !!!!300 POSTS!!!!

[Shur'tugal]

I was asking for replacements for Weavile if it didn't work.

Could I please have a link to Shoddy.

[Chris!]

it's at shoddybattle.net there are instructions there. It's pretty simple, but keep in mind it allows you to do illegal things (Nasty Plot + Tri Attack Togekiss) so make sure you aren't doing anything you can't do in game.

[Shur'tugal]

Thanks Chris.

One more question.

If Weavile doesn't work which on of these pokemon should I replace it with?


Swampert@Leftovers
-Impish-
Avalanche
Waterfall
Stealth Rock
Roar

EVs: *need help*



Skarmory@Leftovres
Careful nature

Spikes
Whirlwind
Brave Bird
Roost


EVs: 248HP 116att 116sp def 28def



Mamoswine@?
Adamant nature

Ice Shard
Curse
Earthquake
Stone Edge


EVs: *need help*


Or if someone has a better idea please post it.

Thanks

And Chris that website you gave me just takes me to a page full of links. Which one is it?

[WER]

The address is www.shoddybattle.com, not .net.

[Chris!]

I'd do Swampert or Mamo for the Ground and Ice coverage. Swampert's probably the better option as he's nice and bulky.

[Shur'tugal]

Ok. I've been on Shoddy and played one battle and won it. I am having a toss up between Weavile and Skarmory.

Weavile because of its type coverage and its fast.

Skarmory because its part steel and a single Garchomp nearly riped my team apart. And spikes+Whirlwind.

[Skittleman]

I personally prefer Weavile, but the reason being that it's basically my favorite pokemon.

Try a few more battles with both options, and try to see which option best suits your team.

[Chris!]

Ouch, a Garchomp weakness can't be good. A lot of Garchomp run Fire Blast, so maybe Ice Shard Weaville is your best bet against him.

[Shur'tugal]

Actually it ripped it apart with Outrage.

[Chris!]

Oh, it was probably a ScarfChomp. I'd actually consider putting Cresselia back on just for Garchomp, but I was pretty sure Swampert could take two Outrages and KO with Avalanche. Hmm...

Also, Breloom is a huge annoyance on Shoddy, so you should think about a sleep absorber or at least keep AA on Weaville for revenge killls.

[Skittleman]

Aerial Ace makes Weavile a good Breloom and Hera killer. If type coverage suits your Weavile best, go AA.

[Shur'tugal]

I do have AA on Weavile.

I keep Weavile and co. Thanks for your help guys.

Sorry for another question but what if I use Lucario? Its part steel and can hit alot of types supereffectively.

[Skittleman]

A special attacking Lucario is always a decent option.

[Shur'tugal]

On Shoddy there both doing equally as good. Which one would be better for competitive play with my team. I might go with Lucario seeing how its part steel but I'm not sure yet.

[Chris!]

Keep in mind that Lucario's pretty frail and this will make him weak to 3 very common types. That being said, he could go over Infernape as a Special type "wall killer" or End-revver.

With Choice Specs (or Life Orb if you want), Lucario has a lot of potential. For anyone dumb enough to try and wall you with Blissey, Aura Sphere is a 2HKO with Specs (not sure on LO) on Bliss and Skarm. Run Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse (Shadow Ball is better as Ghost/Fighting hits the whole game neutral) for Ghosts and Cresselia (whom usually don't run SDef EVs and can thus be killed), HP Ice for Dragons and Hippowdon, and Vacuum Wave for the common Weaville lead.

Since Lucario's immune to Sandstorm, it's pretty much the only Endure-Reversal user who has a chance now. Swords Dance/Endure/Reversal/Crunch is your set. SD up, Endure, Salac Berry kicks in, Reversal, and hope you killed all the priority move users. To give you an idea of Reversal's power, he can OHKO Skarm after a Swords Dance with Reversal. Excluding Ghost types and 4x resists, Reversal will always do more than Crunch to everything.

Take your pick!

[Shur'tugal]

What about

Lucario@CHOICE SPECS
Modest nature

Arua Sphere
Psychic
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse

[Skittleman]

If you are to use Lucario, that is a very good Lucario to use. Deadly against even the most formidable special walls.

[Shur'tugal]

ok. I'll try it on Shoddy.

If it doesn't work what would be a good counter for dragon types besides other dragons?

Would Tyranitar last on Outrage?

[Pencil Thief]

Well, a Milotic could probably take out a sp. sweeper Mence somewhat easily.

Milotic@Leftovers
-Calm-
EVs: 252 sp. def, 128 sp. atk, 128 HP
Surf
Ice Beam
Recover
Toxic

Milotic has enough special defense to last against Mence, and one Ice Beam should be able to him out.

[Chris!]

What about

Lucario@CHOICE SPECS
Modest nature

Arua Sphere
Psychic
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse

A great Lucario, but there's two tiny changes I'd make:
1. Run Vacuum Wave over Psychic, simply because other than Hariyama (which are usually physical walls) no Fighting type can take most of the other attacks. Which reminds me, Shadow Ball over Dark Pulse for hitting Gallade harder.
2. HP Ice over Dragon Pulse since it hurts things more..? Otherwise it's good.

Milotic isn't my favorite Specsmence counter. Empoleon can do better if you're 100% positive it has Specs, but it usually doesn't.

[Shur'tugal]

Originally posted by pencil thief
Well, a Milotic could probably take out a sp. sweeper Mence somewhat easily.

Milotic@Leftovers
-Calm-
EVs: 252 sp. def, 128 sp. atk, 128 HP
Surf
Ice Beam
Recover
Toxic

Milotic has enough special defense to last against Mence, and one Ice Beam should be able to him out.

Good Milotic but Outrage is a physical move.


Originally posted by Chris is me
Milotic isn't my favorite Specsmence counter. Empoleon can do better if you're 100% positive it has Specs, but it usually doesn't.

If its a specsmence then it should have specs

[Pencil Thief]

I was answering the your question about a counter for dragons other than another dragon type. I just used Salamence as an example since it is common.

[Shur'tugal]

True but Outrage is probably the most common dragon type move used.

[Pencil Thief]

Not really, but Milotic should survive it anyway, with its EVs partially in HP. If you want you could put some into defense.

One Ice Beam on Garchomp should definitely take it out. (Garchomp is the pokémon you were having trouble with?)

[Shur'tugal]

Yes it is.


Milotic@Leftovers
Bold nature

Surf
Ice Beam
Recover
Toxic

EVs: 252def 128 sp. atk 128 HP


What about that?

[ngm]

That's the exact Milotic my friend uses (EV's and all), and it's awesome. Go with that.