The Decline Of RE: SurvivalHorror to Survival Action

[FantasyAddict]

Topic says it all. Lets go and disscus how we feel RE has risen and fallen over the years. Focusing mainly on,but not limited too, how the creaion of RE4 affected the series.I'd state my opinion,but I already vented in the UC discussion thread.

Edit: This is NOT for random bashing, but constructive discussion+criticism.

[sidewinder]

Well i had never seen dodge in a FMV before to begin with. Secondly i think the worst REs was Dead Aim and Gun Survivor did not reflect the legacy of the series and wasn't even in the storyline. I think that RE4 affected the series in big way. 1 You get to see where you aim
2 A RE does not need zombies to scare the s^%$ out of you. 3 the graphics were unbelieveable
4 the fact that you get to have a suitcase really helps
5 the merchant
6 the special actions like kick and supplex
7 the really freaky enviroments
Next!

[FantasyAddict]

My response......

Dead Aim paved the way for RE4 as far as lack of major puzzles and camera angles. If you honestly don't think the camera in dead aimwasn't an early form of the now updated over the shoulder camera we are used to then go play it again and try to convince me.

2:No real disagreement other than Zombies had represented the series up untilRE4
3: Good graphics have nothing to do with it being a good RE. DA had up to date grahics for its time and wasn't nearly as good as 1 or 3
4: Again,very little disagreement.
5:Made the game wayyyy to easy. In my opinion lessened the replay value unless you start a new file each time. Thats why I'mhopng for no upgrades or smaller toned ones in RE5.When you can killenemies that were a bitch in first round in 2 shots in a replay round it tends to get a little boringafter a while.
6: again,no gripes here.Just thought they should've been lessened in strength, no one's strong enough to blow a guys head off with a roundhouse kick or his elbow.(no Norris/Lee/Deisel/Willis jokes please, we allknow about their great prowess:D at least Lee and Bruce anyway)
7: No gripe what so ever.

Again,I love the gam, I just felt it didn't really fit with the RE series both story wise, enemy wise, and puzzle wise. Putting pieces in a wall 4 times over are not thought required puzzles.

I'll acknowlage your opinions, but that doesn't mean I'll agree with them;)

[T1000416]

I can peel each and every bit of sidewinders post, but I don't really want to do that right now.

My grip with Resident Evil 4 was that it completely destroyed the 9 years of plot that was building up in the series. So much was unresolved and left to tell, but Capcom decided to take the more "mainstream" approach and destroyed everything. I look at Umbrella Chronicles as more of an apology to the fans than as the plot-unveiling game that it is. Resident Evil 4 just killed the scares. Killed the survival aspect of it. And it killed the storyline. T-Virus and the plot around it made a lot MORE sense than the Plagas ever could. And it was much more debatable and discussion worthy too. Think about, you don't see people talking and discussing about the events of Resident Evil 4 like they would with originals now do you? No, you just see topics like "what guns would you like to see in the next game", which is retarded.

The puzzles in RE4 were a complete joke too. The only tough one was the Ashley reordering puzzle, which is completely uncreative. It's the same exact puzzle we would play with as kids. Yes it's challenging if you're not experienced, but it's the same damn puzzle we've seen a million times before. Now compare that puzzle to that of the Water Sample test from Resident Evil 3. Now that puzzle was damn near impossible to figure out.

You know, I'm too tired to finish this completely, but I'll say this though. Yes, the game had excellent graphics and great gameplay, but I honestly think that more bad came from the game than good. The more I think about it, the more I want to deny its existence. I'm almost ready to consider Umbrella Chronicles the conclusion to Resident Evil. I'll still play Resident Evil 5 when it comes out, in the hopes it revitalizes the series. But as it stand now, my RE is dead.

[Ruks]

Yeah I believe series could have gone in a different direction besides what 4 did. I thought it should have been the remaining STARS members and other surviving characters should have taken down umbrella in a big way. The original plot of the series was definately more interesting. To me RE1 the original and Remake are still the best RE games in the series because of the great atmosphere that the mansion provided. But don't get me wrong RE4 is still a great game I just wish the series could of still stuck with some of the original gameplay. Such as puzzles and having more of mystery to the plot.

[FantasyAddict]

Exactly.Instead of RE4,they should've made something similar to the final scenario of UC. Now that would be a game worth the title of Resident Evil.(not gameplay,just storywise)

[Nicholas]

How it fell: Gaiden.

How it rose back up: RE4.

'Nough said.

[DarthKrauser]

My gripes about RE4:
1.Escort Mission
2.Not Scary
3.Not as memorable
4.Made an entirely new story with an old character
5.Focused more on action and having the best guns/inventory
6.TOO EASY!
Positive things:
1.Graphics
2.Laser sight
3.Kick-ass weapons
4.Ada was hot.

It would have been better if Capcom stayed with the BETA RE4.

[sidewinder]

I can peel each and every bit of sidewinders post, but I don't really want to do that right now.

My grip with Resident Evil 4 was that it completely destroyed the 9 years of plot that was building up in the series. So much was unresolved and left to tell, but Capcom decided to take the more "mainstream" approach and destroyed everything. I look at Umbrella Chronicles as more of an apology to the fans than as the plot-unveiling game that it is. Resident Evil 4 just killed the scares. Killed the survival aspect of it. And it killed the storyline. T-Virus and the plot around it made a lot MORE sense than the Plagas ever could. And it was much more debatable and discussion worthy too. Think about, you don't see people talking and discussing about the events of Resident Evil 4 like they would with originals now do you? No, you just see topics like "what guns would you like to see in the next game", which is retarded.

The puzzles in RE4 were a complete joke too. The only tough one was the Ashley reordering puzzle, which is completely uncreative. It's the same exact puzzle we would play with as kids. Yes it's challenging if you're not experienced, but it's the same damn puzzle we've seen a million times before. Now compare that puzzle to that of the Water Sample test from Resident Evil 3. Now that puzzle was damn near impossible to figure out.

You know, I'm too tired to finish this completely, but I'll say this though. Yes, the game had excellent graphics and great gameplay, but I honestly think that more bad came from the game than good. The more I think about it, the more I want to deny its existence. I'm almost ready to consider Umbrella Chronicles the conclusion to Resident Evil. I'll still play Resident Evil 5 when it comes out, in the hopes it revitalizes the series. But as it stand now, my RE is dead.

I am sure that you can peel my post but it was my first RE so... and yeah you were right about the puzzles but come on man deny it's existence? And about the plot the plot: this could a new era for the game. That is not so bad right ? And do tell me that the regenerators did not scare you the first time you played the game.

And Fantasy Addict you were right about the camera. And of course you do not have to agree with me: You are a Veteran of the series, I have just began.

[T1000416]

How it fell: Gaiden.

How it rose back up: RE4.

'Nough said.

Right :rolleyes:

Gaiden was an non-canon GBA game that Capcom didn't even develop. Not many fans have even heard about it. It made no effect on the series.

this could a new era for the game. That is not so bad right ?

It wouldn't have been so bad if the original storyline had been wrapped up and resolved. I'd still be unhappy with it though, just not to the extent that I am now.

[Darth-gamer]

I loved RE:4. I wasen't the typical RE you would expect, but, in my opion, it was for the better. The first time I played through, during the non-combat sessions, Albiet there aren't that many, I flt the regulay "creeped out by RE feeling". Approaching the cabin for the first time, that was creepy. It wasen't as creepy as the previous REs, but it mad up for than in the flawless game play. I feel that if all the stuff from RE:4 was paried with locations similar to the ones from previous REs (Like the mansion in, as DK said, the BETA) you woulden't even miss the old style of gameplay. It DID stray a little too much from the RE storyline, but that goes along with the fresh new RE experience. GTA: IV is straying as well, and while I am dissapointed I also realize that the story could now go anywhere on next-gen consoles.


6: again,no gripes here.Just thought they should've been lessened in strength, no one's strong enough to blow a guys head off with a roundhouse kick or his elbow.(no Norris/Lee/Deisel/Willis jokes please, we allknow about their great prowess at least Lee and Bruce anyway)

Damn. :cry:

EDIT: Bad Grammer...try:


I loved RE:4. I wasn't the typical RE you would expect, but, in my opion, it was for the better. The first time I played through, during the non-combat sessions, Albeit there aren't that many, I felt the regular "creeped out by RE feeling". Approaching the cabin for the first time, that was creepy. It wasen't as creepy as the previous REs, but it mad up for than in the flawless game play. I feel that if all the stuff from RE:4 was paired with locations similar to the ones from previous REs (Like the mansion in, as DK said, the BETA) you wouldn't even miss the old style of gameplay. It DID stray a little too much from the RE storyline, but that goes along with the fresh new RE experience. GTA: IV is straying as well, and while I am disappointed I also realize that the story could now go anywhere on next-gen consoles.

[FantasyAddict]

I am sure that you can peel my post but it was my first RE so... and yeah you were right about the puzzles but come on man deny it's existence? And about the plot the plot: this could a new era for the game. That is not so bad right ? And do tell me that the regenerators did not scare you the first time you played the game.

And Fantasy Addict you were right about the camera. And of course you do not have to agree with me: You are a Veteran of the series, I have just began.
Ok, you make valid points.Thats good.Most people just say its awesome and give the same reasons over and over. Reason's which have nothing to do with it being a RE.

My advice is to try and get/buy/borrow the older games so you can get a broader view and understanding as to why we're pissed w/ capcom, (XD)
(And yes, the Regenerators did scare the holy bejesus outta me my first way through)

How it fell: Gaiden.

How it rose back up: RE4.

'Nough said.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't 3 come after Gaiden? So by your logic 3 was also bad. If RE3 wasn't a better turn after 2 than Idk what is.

Honestly, like T1000 said, I wouldn't have been as upset if they had had a game after 3 based around how Umbrella was brought down. (Like the last scenario in UC) I still wouldn't have been very happy about RE4, but not nearly as upset as I am now.

Oh, and it would've been even worse if they stuck with the beta version. Too "Alone In the Dark" like, ghosts and living dolls do not make a RE.(unless you meant control wise, I'd agree w/ that)

EDIT: Fine darth, I'll give ya Willis+Lee:D

[Ziak]

Well i just don't understand , we are getting RE for the wii seperate on the wii than the other 2 consoles so if they are making two different games sets why cant wii and 360/ wii and ps3 be able to enjoy both styles or RE. I love both RE game types and don'twanna see either of them go. So i don't get why RE 5 isn't a classic style of RE game while the wii games could be based around the re4 ( the control scheme works so well with the wii mote ) gameplay style making most of us happy right?

[T1000416]

It DID stray a little too much from the RE storyline, but that goes along with the fresh new RE experience.

Which makes it all the more disappointing.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't 3 come after Gaiden?

No, Zero did. And REmake came out only a few months before it. So Nicholas whole "downfall" logic is a piece of ****. If anything, Gaiden was released back when Resident Evil was in sort of its own golden age.

Oh, and it would've been even worse if they stuck with the beta version. Too "Alone In the Dark" like, ghosts and living dolls do not make a RE.(unless you meant control wise, I'd agree w/ that)

It would have still been more relevant to the series than what it turned out to be. Its plot was that Leon would get infected with the Progenitor virus and hallucinate, while discovering more secrets about the virus itself. While yes, it would have still strayed from the Resident Evil norm, it's storyline would have made it far more acceptable.

[FantasyAddict]

No, Zero did. And REmake came out only a few months before it. So Nicholas whole "downfall" logic is a piece of ****. If anything, Gaiden was released back when Resident Evil was in sort of its own golden age.
Ah, thank you. Either way my original point still stands.
It would have still been more relevant to the series than what it turned out to be. Its plot was that Leon would get infected with the Progenitor virus and hallucinate, while discovering more secrets about the virus itself. While yes, it would have still strayed from the Resident Evil norm, it's storyline would have made it far more acceptable.

Ah, You see I din't know those were hallucinations, I thought they were actual enemies(I only saw the beta vid, not read actual info on it). If thats the case then I would've gladly accepted it. Wait, wasn't the Progeniter virus the one that was in RE0?(the one Spencer based the T-Virus off of)

Do the rest of you think this topic warrants a Sticky?

[T1000416]

Wait, wasn't the Progeniter virus the one that was in RE0?(the one Spencer based the T-Virus off of)

Yeah, it was. Now we'll probably never get any of those answers.

Do the rest of you think this topic warrants a Sticky?

I'd at least wait and see if this thread can make a few pages.

[FantasyAddict]

Yeah, it was. Now we'll probably never get any of those answers.



I'd at least wait and see if this thread can make a few pages.
Sounds like a plan.

[Nicholas]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't 3 come after Gaiden? So by your logic 3 was also bad. If RE3 wasn't a better turn after 2 than Idk what is.


Truth be told, I never even played RE3. I've only played a couple RE games (Outbreak and RE4). But if RE3 was actually good...I'll check it out sometime.

[FantasyAddict]

Truth be told, I never even played RE3. I've only played a couple RE games (Outbreak and RE4). But if RE3 was actually good...I'll check it out sometime.
Thats all I was saying. If you play the others and still think 4 is the best, then fine. I just don't like it when ppl hold it above the other REs when they've never played 1-3.(Not pointing any fingers)

Still waiting Darth;)

[Darth-gamer]

Oh, and it would've been even worse if they stuck with the beta version. Too "Alone In the Dark" like, ghosts and living dolls do not make a RE.(unless you meant control wise, I'd agree w/ that)

I just mean location. I hate the sci-fi/ghosts crap.

And I still think RE:4 is the best, but that doesn't mean the other ones suck. I still play REmake, RE:0, RE:3 and all the old ones for that matter. I just liked RE:4 the best.

I have to agree, I too hate people who play RE:4 and then go back and hate the older ones. You really can't play RE in reverse, it only works going forward.

[FantasyAddict]

I just mean location. I hate the sci-fi/ghosts crap.

And I still think RE:4 is the best, but that doesn't mean the other ones suck. I still play REmake, RE:0, RE:3 and all the old ones for that matter. I just liked RE:4 the best.

I have to agree, I too hate people who play RE:4 and then go back and hate the older ones. You really can't play RE in reverse, it only works going forward.
Hell,I played RE2 Dual Shock first and got f***ed up in 1+3. I thought all of em had more than enough ammo, until I played them more.

[sidewinder]

Hey FA what's a sticky?

[Darth-gamer]

Hey FA what's a sticky?
One of those threads at the top of the page that never move from the top. They say "important" next to them.

[sidewinder]

Well in that case i would follow T1000416's advice. Wait till this gets bigger. By the way I played Nemesis on PC jeez it creeped me out for real I really hate Nemesis music it messes with my head and the atmosphere is much more hair raising. FA you were right to get pissed with capcom. And not just you, me too now. I really hope they compensate with RE5 but i do not know: voodoo magic and in the middle of the day? I don't know guys...

[FantasyAddict]

Well in that case i would follow T1000416's advice. Wait till this gets bigger. By the way I played Nemesis on PC jeez it creeped me out for real I really hate Nemesis music it messes with my head and the atmosphere is much more hair raising. FA you were right to get pissed with capcom. And not just you, me too now. I really hope they compensate with RE5 but i do not know: voodoo magic and in the middle of the day? I don't know guys...
One more player educated.....

New topic, The Merchant. Yes, a cool character, but damn he made the game wayyyy to easy+unrealistic. Discuss!

[sidewinder]

Well it did make the game easy and would be better to find the guns lying on the ground but i really liked that guy. There was a feeling of relief every time I saw him but i too would like another way to be found for upgrading the weapons and selling the treasures a way that would be more "real" and to go through some serious trouble in the game to reach that way. What i would not like to see in RE5 is that first aid sprays would only be found on the ground i really hate seing the character walking like his one leg is gone limp...

[Darth-gamer]

One more player educated.....

New topic, The Merchant. Yes, a cool character, but damn he made the game wayyyy to easy+unrealistic. Discuss!
Too easy. If I want upgraded weapons than let me find an updrade kit like in RE:CVX or RE:0.

[Ziak]

The thing with the Merchant wasn't the problem it was the fact that upgrades themselves were too strong. If they tone them down a bit it prolly wouldn't be as noticable. It could have been worse too imagine fi you could buy ammo from the merchant. I'd have ways to beat Salzar with it being a pain in my ass on pro XD

[Ruks]

The funny thing is I found the Merchant to be more creepy than some of the other things in the game. The way he just pops up all over and there were a few times I shot him by accident.

[Ziak]

Thats funny Ruks i shoot him to0 .... on purpose XD he dies funny i like watching him suffer.he does pop up in unusual places and sometimes does look like an enemy if it wasn't for the sudden change in sound and a certain calmness that coems along with him i might have shot him on accident a few times.

[Darth-gamer]

The funny thing is I found the Merchant to be more creepy than some of the other things in the game. The way he just pops up all over and there were a few times I shot him by accident.
The blue flames that accompany every merchant didn't give it away? :P

[sidewinder]

Well when you play the game for the first time you the "shoot everything that moves tactic" so it is kinda hard not to shoot him by accident the first time. I also could not help but notice that the eyes of the merchant are red sometimes. What gives? Is he infected or what?

[DarthKrauser]

Well when you play the game for the first time you the "shoot everything that moves tactic" so it is kinda hard not to shoot him by accident the first time. I also could not help but notice that the eyes of the merchant are red sometimes. What gives? Is he infected or what?
This has been debated,he may be a Ganados/Illuminados,but Capcom is'nt telling.They also glow at night areas,namely the castle entrance,and near Bitores Mendez's barn.One Cool thing about RE4 is the ditman glitch,because if you use it in the Merchant area where you can climb up and push the boxes,you can float and walk through some walls to find a BETA item:Ada's shotgun from Seperate Ways,and "Homing" mine darrts,implying that Capcom intended for there to be no Homing upgrade for the Mine Thrower.Ada's shotgun,when examined,glitches and turns into the normal shotgun.

[Ruks]

Theres was so many times I just wanted to shoot the Merchant and take all his stuff. But I liked the character I looked foward to seeing him in the next area, and those eyes of his are definately strange.

[FIRE STORM101]

As a noob to the Resident Evil series, I may not have the right to speak my mind, but I will anyways. Oh, and let me say that while I'm new to RE, I do know about the games, characters, and the story line so I'm not an uneducated noob.

I was rathered shocked to find out that Umbrella *sp* was dismembered and that I wasn't going to be fighting zombies. I'm with most of you with "how could they get rid of the T-virus". But I doubt that it will be the last we see of it.

And we can't be too mad at Capcom for what they did. With all the other RE games that came out, weither side stories or remakes, they needed to up-grade the series and how it's played.

The game would have been more challenging with fixed camrea angles, but would have rendered the game as one of the most unplayable games during last gen. But they couldn't give the player full camrea control either could they? This is why we have the over the shoulder view. Yes, you can see more and get a better handle on the situation, but during my play through there were plenty of times I was surpized by enemies behind me, or even to the far right of me that came out of seemingly no where.

I believe Capcom remained faithful to the limited inventory space. Yes, they revamped it to a case that you can orginized to fit the players needs, and up-grades, but it's not like they forced people to buy them either. Same with the other weapon up-grades. They didn't make it that you have to buy them, or any other weapons either. They give you two pistols, a shot gun, and the Broken butterfly without haveing to buy anything, everything else was optional.

Now, back to the lack of T-virus. With Umbrella gone, for the moment, they needed to make something to replace it. Thus Las Palgus was born. If natural on earth or space, thanks to human experiments we have creatures and enemies worthy of the franchise. Even more so because now the humans can attack with weapons and headshot are no longer an instant kill 100% of the time. And they provide moments that will make many people cry out in fear.

And some of the mutations and transformation did stay true to the RE formula. Big and ugly.

And finaly, thanks to pure speculation due to information in RE4 and from people such as you all, I predict a return of Umbrella and the T-virus. And possible a Las Plagus/T-virus mixed enemy
While I doubt Capcom will make us conserve ammo as bad as the perevious games, I don't think their going to be as liberal with it as RE4, if you think they gave you too much in the game.

As I said before, I'm new to the RE games, and to survivle horror also, so I really had no right to say any of this. But this game was the only game that as scared me that I've played and more so then any movie that I've seen so it still counts as a horror game to me.

[soulless669]

ok...wait.... did any of you beat the "assignment ada"? anyway...its all for Umbrella... maybe they are gonna remake the t-virus... or maybe they are gonna go in a totally different angle with it...altho i dont think five is gonna relate much to the t-virus... but...either way..it looks kick ass... and could one of you help me find res3 for the gc... thats the only one i havent played...

[FIRE STORM101]

Because I'm not alowed to edit my post for some reason, I forgot to add this. Yes, they could have had better puzzles. All the ones they had could have been solved by 4 year olds in my opinion. Just have to pay attention to detail.

And while I could have done without the escort part of the game, that did add to the tension some. I'd rather shoot Ashley then let those guys get their hands on her, which I did.

As soon as I beat RE4, what would be a good game for me to pick up next to help me understand RE better? All I have is a PS2 so I know my game choices are limited.

[soulless669]

uhh...****.... i dont know... dead aim isnt very good at all... the outbreak series werent very good either... but it is pretty cool to play online with ppl. altho i havent played outbreak 2...im sure it would be an ok game.... i dont know for sure tho... you could try to find a copy of res2 or 3. but i think it would be a ps1 game...

[FantasyAddict]

Because I'm not alowed to edit my post for some reason, I forgot to add this. Yes, they could have had better puzzles. All the ones they had could have been solved by 4 year olds in my opinion. Just have to pay attention to detail.

And while I could have done without the escort part of the game, that did add to the tension some. I'd rather shoot Ashley then let those guys get their hands on her, which I did.

As soon as I beat RE4, what would be a good game for me to pick up next to help me understand RE better? All I have is a PS2 so I know my game choices are limited.
Thank you for putting together an intelligent opinion on the subject(not too many on the internet these days :D )

Its not so much the direction they took that irritated me(taking away the virus and all) it's just that they could've done better to make it feel like a RE. Even with 3rd person cameras it wouldn't be the same.

The best things to try and pick up if you can are RE1: Director's Cut, RE2 and RE3 for PS1. Those give you the story from start up until where you're at now(though they'll be pretty tough to find. If you ever get a game cube you can try and find em' for that since they ported the whole series to it a few years ago, though they can be just as tough to find)