TNA Genesis (Pseudo Spoilers) [11.11.07]

[Dean]

Kurt Angle (c) and Kevin Nash versus Sting and Mystery Partner
Tag Team Match for TNA World Heavyweight Championship

Gail Kim (c) versus Roxxi Laveaux versus ODB versus Angel Williams
Four Way Match for TNA Knockout Championship

Jay Lethal (c) versus Sonjay Dutt
Singles Match for TNA X Division Championship

AJ Styles and Tomko (c) versus The Steiners
Tag Team Match for TNA World Tag Team Championships

Christian Cage versus Kaz
Ladder Match - Fight For Your Right Tournament Finals

Samoa Joe versus Robert Roode
Singles Grudge Match

Team 3D versus The Motor City Machineguns
Tag Team Grudge Match

Black Reign versus Abyss
Shop of Horrors Match

It's interesting to note that Rhino, Christopher Daniels, Senshi, and Ron Killings are not on this card due to commitments in New Japan Pro Wrestling (an event that is featuring several NJPW versus TNA matches.)

The card for that event, for those interested, has been or will soon be posted in the TNA Wrestling Discussion topic.

It's also interesting to note that neither Jay Lethal versus Elix Skipper nor Christian Cage versus Kaz nor Styles and Tomko versus The STeiners have been confirmed as of this date, but are expected to be announced during or after the November 8th edition of TNA iMPACT! on Spike TV.

Top to bottom, this card seems average. It doesn't pack any match of the year candidates, and most of the wrestlers capable of putting those sort of matches on are wrestling wrestlers who aren't in their physical primes. Styles and Tomko versus Motor City Machineguns is a match I look forward to. Hopefully both teams will vanquish their nemeses and meet up in the very near future for what I anticipate will be a match of the year.

Leaving Latin American Xchange off the card, even though they did recently suffer a loss to Styles and Tomko, seems foolish to me. They're involved in a storyline right now, and are consistently putting on among the best matches on the pay-per-views. If nothing more, they could face and defeat Voodoo Kin Mafia again in the pre-show, and hopefully that is what will happen.

No news yet of who is officially Sting's "mystery partner," though speculation is Booker T will be playing the role. The outcome of the match is up in the air, as TNA has a history of making unexpected (and in some ways foolish) moves in these situations.

Samoa Joe and Robert Roode have the talent to deliver. Their match could be as good, if not better, than the matches Joe and Christian Cage have been having recently, given the talent of both wrestlers. The feud has been very exciting, and the brawls were brutal, so I am expecting this match to be the MOTN.

Christian Cage and Kaz is a good match-up and a ladder match is the perfect platform to showcase the skills of both wrestlers. I anticipate Cage to get the win here over newcomer Kaz, but it will help elevate Kaz in many people's eyes. Cage gets the nod here and goes on to win his TNA World Championship.

I don't have high hopes for Black Reign versus Abyss, but for fans of the mainstream hardcore scene, this match should be up your alley. It will deliver in terms of uniqueness and a couple of interesting spots, but overall, I'm expecting this to be a transitory match during the PPV between two action-packed matches (probably a barrier between the women's title match and Cage versus Kaz).

If speculation is true and Skipper is receiving a TNA X Division Title shot, then I expect Jay Lethal to beat him in short, but sweet fashion. The match will likely involve Lethal winning in the usual way - battling back at the end and nailing the Macho Elbow Drop for the win.

All in all, I don't think this is a PPV worth ordering or buying on DVD. None of the matches have the potential to wow me, and I have a sinking feeling the main event will end in great disappointment for TNA's fans.

The card will be updated after TNA iMPACT! this week to reflect changes.

EDIT: By the way, I plan on doing this for every PPV from now on. I'd like to get a PPV discussion topic started about three or four days before the PPV occurs and stick that topic, since there is always one made anyway. It'll be a good way to make sure we can separate the WWE/TNA weekly show(s) discussion with the PPV discussion, and just generate more talk among the members about the PPVs.

[Soda Shop Hero]

I think honestly as a TNA Fan and a WWE fan this PPV is going to suck.

A lot of the matches they make sense but I have no want to see them.

Lethal's match I hope either he comes out with Val or maybe Lethal comes very close to losing and she makes the save for him. Still a short match but just a little something to push how she will become his Miss Liz. I personally vote for So Cal Val to be Drunk Val while in the angle with Lethal just because that would be hilarious. But you know So Cal Val made her Indy cred by being this snotty money grubbing head b in charge. She wore the dress's and fur coats and everything she really was in her early indy days she to me was very much like a new Miss Liz. And what would you expect from a girl who is in wrestling because of Miss Elizabeth and Missy Hyatt. She was bound for this gimmick. So, I hope they use this time to get that attention on both him and her and its a great example of using talent that you have in the company instead of going out to get some random chick to play his valet.

Kaz vs. Christian Cage.

This is a Traditional Ladder Match, Right? This is a very classic match up. Cage I dont care...so what if Bret Hart and HBK was wrestling in Ladder Matches back in the day whatever to me Hardys and Edge/Christian very much MADE what Ladder Matches should be. When it comes to Ladder matches I would love to see Rated Rko vs. Hardys vs. MNM vs. Londerick vs. Christian/Styles that match up would be a scramble ladder and it would be freaking awesome and just hell of a spot after spot. When it comes to this match here in TNA. Kaz as he says on TNA Today The K-A-Z has to use this to really show his talents and he has a guy like Christian Cage to wrestle with. I would love to see see The Flux Capacitator off the ladder...haha...it would be very fkn dangerous move but it would be nice to see. Of course Christian should hit his classics off the ladders. If given time this match would be awesome.

Samoa Joe vs. Robert Roode.

After that bloody bloody outcome the other night on TNA and the size of both wrestlers I think it would be very possible to see a great match out of these two...I just hope that Rain doesnt mess it up by attacking Traci or something. Seeing how TNA wants to take a WWE route when it comes to certain matches...I could see Rain and Traci cat figthing in the middle of what could be a great match.

I wanna see who Sting's partner is but I dont care for the match. I think that RVD would be the one that hast the most beef with Kurt because of the past ECW thing. I rather see RVD than Booker T.

Anytime Motor City is wrestling its going to be a good match but because of the size difference its not going to be the match that could be something great. I hope this is used to bring in Matthews and Swinger. Maybe Dudleys bring them in. Swinger was pretty popular in ECW and Matthews did work for ECW in the dieing days of ECW or something. I dont know. I dont like when Sabin or Shelley work against larger guys I like when they wrestle guys their size because usually they can do some chain wrestling that looks really nice. Thats why I hope that Rave and Hoyt make it as a tag team. Hoyt is bigger than MMG but Rave being from ROH and we know what Rave can do with Shelley hopefully we see a good match by the end of the night.

The KnockOut Match...Gail retains sure...but I would like to see Angel come out on top just not win the belt ...yet.

Really dont care about the other matches.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

I think Cage vs Kaz has the potential to steel the show if they're given enough airtime and I'm looking forward to both tag matches although I also look forward to my 2 favourite teams facing each other. Abyss vs Black reign I'm not really interested in unless it marks the return of Mesias.

[TD]

On Impact they said the X-Division title match is Jay Lethal against Sonjay Dutt.. not Elix Skipper..

[Northern Lights]

Yeah, it is Lethal vs. Dutt.

Confirmation on what a "Shop of Horrors" match is?

[Dean]

Confirmation on what a "Shop of Horrors" match is?

AD and I think it's something like Clockwork Orange House of Fun, but with shop tools and stuff (and of course Misty the rat).

Anyone else think it's retarded they have LAX on the PPV poster, but they aren't wrestling?

I'll probably post my own little preview thing of the PPV tomorrow.

I'm pretty disappointed nobody's even talking about the PPV in here. Come on, guys. I know there are more than 3-4 people who watch TNA, even off-and-on, who can comment about the PPV...

[Northern Lights]

People are probably waiting for the PPV to actually happen... then they can abuse the show. That is what they want.

[TD, Jr.]

Okay, Here's my predictions for the PPV:

Kurt Angle (c) and Kevin Nash versus Sting and Mystery Partner
Tag Team Match for TNA World Heavyweight Championship

I think that Angle's gonna come out on top on this one. I'm not really sure about Booker being Sting's partner, unless he didn't have a no compete clause in his contract. If it's not Booker, I say RVD.

Gail Kim (c) versus Roxxi Laveaux versus ODB versus Angel Williams Four Way Match for TNA Knockout Championship

I want Roxxi to win, but I think Gail will.

Jay Lethal (c) versus Sonjay Dutt
Singles Match for TNA X Division Championship

I say Lethal will win this one.

AJ Styles and Tomko (c) versus The Steiners
Tag Team Match for TNA World Tag Team Championships

Styles and Tomko will take this one, and then feud with LAX (hopefully)

Christian Cage versus Kaz
Ladder Match - Fight For Your Right Tournament Finals

I'd love to see Kaz win this one, but I think that Double C will win after some help from Styles or Tomko.

Samoa Joe versus Robert Roode
Singles Grudge Match

I'm not really sure how this one will go, but It'll be a hell of a good match

Team 3D versus The Motor City Machineguns
Tag Team Grudge Match

MCMG all the way

Black Reign versus Abyss
Shop of Horrors Match

Not really sure, cuz I'm not sure what the match actually is. But I'll say Abyss.

[Soda Shop Hero]

Looks like TNA finally stole someone from the WWE before the WWE could sign him.

Redrum aka Johnny The Bull showed up during the Abyss/Black Match

WWE was wanting him for ECW looks like TNA grabbed him 1st. Good Going there.

[Austin.]

Wasnt he *the guy in the spoilers* in the WWE before? It seems like he went under the dang I dont know how to use spoiler tags, but his nickname not the first one but the second nickname.
Sorry guys if this confuses anyone.

[Dean]

You don't have to use spoilers, guys. It already happened.

Anyone viewing this thread should know there'll be results from the PPV.


ANYWAY, Johnny The Bull was in WCW and WWE. He was in the FBI in WWE. Johnny Stamboli, yeah...

Glad to see him in TNA as I want to see them sign more non X Division up and comers.

[Soda Shop Hero]

Yeah, Johnny was in WCW and WWE before but his contract ran up or something and they didnt resign him they didnt need him. Much like the word that Chuck would be coming back a few months ago we kept hearing that Johnny would be back in the WWE but under the Redrum gimmick.

Of course Redrum...Murder. The gimmick was suppose/rumored to be used as someone to feud with The BogeyMan, Kane and possibly Kevin Thorn. The dark gothic-isk gimmicks would be the main focal point of ECW because of the whole Sci Fi thing. But then those rumors just slowly died. I had never heard that TNA was interested in him and seeing him on TNA tonight was truely a shock.

*Edit*

Wiki says that as recent as July and Sept, Johnny wrestled dark matches against Chavo and Val. Against Val he did the Redrum Gimmick but the whole steorid thing came out so WWE dropped bringging him back atleast for the moment.

[TD, Jr.]

Overall, I was impressed by the PPV. I marked out for KaZ winning the ladder match. Pretty much new what would happen in the rest of the matches, but overall still a very good ppv, imho.

[Dean]

I thought the PPV was great. None of the matches were bad, and most of the matches I thought would be bad were actually good. I'm very happy to have watched.

Booker T got a huge pop and great responses from the crowd the whole night, so I'm glad they're happy he's here. I'll reserve my opinion until I see more of him in TNA and how they plan on using him.

[TravisTouchdown]

So all that hype and Angle retains.

Also I love how a company that claims to be the new face of wrestling has a main even of 4 guys who have been around more than a decade, 3 of whom were around for something like 20 years.

Also Reign, Steiners and 3D

The new face of wrestling is apparently the face of WCW in 1997

[Dean]

Also Reign, Steiners and 3D

Who are wrestlers who lost to put over new talent on this pay-per-view!

What do I win, Alex?

[TravisTouchdown]

Who are wrestlers who lost to put over new talent on this pay-per-view!

What do I win, Alex?

A title shot against a champion who will squash you.

[Aphrodite]

Who are wrestlers who lost to put over new talent on this pay-per-view!

You use both "new" and "talent" rather loosely.

[TravisTouchdown]

You use both "new" and "talent" rather loosely.

Shelley and Sabin, Tomko and Styles, i'd say they apply. Well. Maybe not styles as far as New.

Calling Abyss either is a stretch.

[Aphrodite]

Tomko fails talent, Styles fails new, Shelley and Sabin fail being interesting.

[Dean]

Tomko fails talent, Styles fails new, Shelley and Sabin fail being interesting.

If you haven't seen Tomko matches recently, then I could understand why you'd think he's untalented. But watch his stuff in Japan and in TNA and tell me he isn't one of the best big men in wrestling today.

As far as Shelley and Sabin not being interesting, the merchandise sales say otherwise.

[Soda Shop Hero]

I personally think that Tomko looks way better and wrestles way better in TNA than he did in the WWE. I dont know why he just does.

Maybe its because Tomko isnt in a land of giants anymore so Tomko looks more normal in matches against guys equal to his size.

[Dean]

I personally think that Tomko looks way better and wrestles way better in TNA than he did in the WWE. I dont know why he just does.

Maybe its because Tomko isnt in a land of giants anymore so Tomko looks more normal in matches against guys equal to his size.

He has a dozen or so new moves he's been using in TNA, and he looked way impressive against guys closer to his own size, like Bubba Ray, Hernandez, Samoa Joe, and Scott Steiner too.

But yeah, the way he manhandles the X Division guys or even Sting is amazing. He bench pressed Sting and then threw him forward, and then caught him with a fallaway slam. And he has the argentine rack neckbreaker, the yakuza kick, the lariat, the choke bomb, the torture rack... He's been taking bumps... He fell off the f*cking titantron on one of the recent PPVs (I think Hard Justice). Hell, in Japan, I saw him miss a Senton Bomb. A 6'6, 289 pound guy doing a Senton Bomb... Yeah, that's untalented. :rolleyes:

Like Christian Cage says, Tomko's a student of the game, and he's vastly improved. Cage credits it to him watching a lot of videotapes and just studying... I get pissed when people claim he's untalented, because it's a generalization of all men his size and build. It isn't true. It wasn't true for Test; it isn't true for Tomko. They're both talented and can put on great matches when given the opportunity.

[TravisTouchdown]

Yeah save it for Abyss. The fat load.

[Dean]

Abyss' best qualities by far are his size, but predominantly, his willingness to do ANYTHING. He's basically Foley sans the mic skills, plus a bit more intimidation. He's fine. I don't see why you have such a big problem with Abyss... He's used well and puts on good hardcore matches.

But you hate anybody who's known for putting on spots (Jeff Hardy, Sabu, RVD, AJ Styles, etc.), so I guess it should come as no surprise...

[Noise]

Abyss has great mic skills, he kinda reminds me of a pissed-off four-year-old.

[TravisTouchdown]

Abyss' best qualities by far are his size, but predominantly, his willingness to do ANYTHING. He's basically Foley sans the mic skills, plus a bit more intimidation. He's fine. I don't see why you have such a big problem with Abyss... He's used well and puts on good hardcore matches.

But you hate anybody who's known for putting on spots (Jeff Hardy, Sabu, RVD, AJ Styles, etc.), so I guess it should come as no surprise...

But he doesn't put on spots. He TAKES them.

Anyone with high tolerance for pain can TAKE a spot.

And we've been over Sabu, RVD and Styles.

My problems with RVD came from me underestimating him because of WWE. I admitted that.

My problem with Sabu is that he's as sloppy in the ring as he is innovative.

And Styles. Well I never got to see much of his better ringwork and his micwork is awful.

And Hardy. Well he's just. Sh*tty.

I don't like Abyss because he's supposed to be a monster but he's just a fat guy in a mask. He's not particularly large for a wrestler. He's what. 6'4?.

Foley wasn't THE MONSTER Mankind.

[Dean]

But he doesn't put on spots. He TAKES them.

Anyone with high tolerance for pain can TAKE a spot.

And we've been over Sabu, RVD and Styles.

My problems with RVD came from me underestimating him because of WWE. I admitted that.

My problem with Sabu is that he's as sloppy in the ring as he is innovative.

And Styles. Well I never got to see much of his better ringwork and his micwork is awful.

And Hardy. Well he's just. Sh*tty.

I don't like Abyss because he's supposed to be a monster but he's just a fat guy in a mask. He's not particularly large for a wrestler. He's what. 6'4?.

Foley wasn't THE MONSTER Mankind.

Mankind was originally very much a psychopathic monster type character. He was a schizophrenic psycho who liked to inflict punishment, on the same lines as Abyss. They didn't promote his intimidation factor as much because.. well.. Foley isn't THAT intimidating. But Abyss is, to me anyway.

[TravisTouchdown]

He was a psycho. But he wasn't a MONSTER.

I mean they explicitly call Abyss a monster.

[Aphrodite]

If you haven't seen Tomko matches recently, then I could understand why you'd think he's untalented. But watch his stuff in Japan and in TNA and tell me he isn't one of the best big men in wrestling today.

Okay, so he's the best car in the scrap yard.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

Tomko has improved vastly in TNA but bearing in mind he hardly wrestled his own matches in WWE its not a surprise that he looks better.

Abyss has grew on me a lot in recent months at first I thought he was just a half assed Kane knock off but since I've realised hes far more Foleyesque, bring in a hardcore title to keep him out of the main title picture and let him take moves that would make most people quit at the thought.

MMG - I cant believe anybody would say their not interesting, their ring work is outstanding and their interviews are great, Sabin is learning a lot from Shelley.

And as for AJ, sure his mic work may not have been great but hes acted the fool briliantly and it allows him to get away with it

[Northern Lights]

AJ's mic work has improved a lot.