'The Wheel of Time: Knife of Dreams' discussion

[Singin Hobo]

Part of the Sci-fi/Fantasy GW Book Club (http://forums.gamewinners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536568)

I've been wanting to discuss this series with somebody since I started it, but I didn't want to learn of a single breath in the series before I had read it, so I've had to wait until just today to let it all out. (Needless to say, this post will be ripe with spoilers)

First of all, let me apologize in advance... I'll be checking a website containing names of characters, but I'm likely to butcher a few spellings because I've actually been listening to this entire series on my iPod for the past 22 months (it's about 15 days of unabridged audio, and I've had to break it up with other readings/listenings in-between books). So sorry.

I was impressed especially with the first few books of the series, how the story was woven so skillfully and intentionally from the beginning. Rand being the child of the heir to the throne of Andor was a tasty little tid-bit when it was semi-revealed... that being said I love that they it leaves so many things for us to figure out, making no actual mention of them in the books, but providing clues for it. And the way the Aiel are decended from the Tuatha'an (I'd figured that one out, too, but they gave that little secret away anyhow)... it's just all a great tapestry that was patiently revealed.

I know there are a few complaints about how slow-moving other of the books are, and I tend to agree... there were some points that didn't need to be dragged out as they were... I was growing incredibly impatient wondering about Faile for 5 or 6 books. I really enjoyed the story of the Aes Sedai fight and Egwene being trained by the Wise Ones and being raised to Amyrlin, but the other stories seemed to practically stand still.

I think he might have put Rand in a position of power too soon because there was a book or two where we didn't even freaking SEE the Dragon Reborn. Some of my favorite moments were at the beginning of the series when Rand was confronted by somebody for wearing the heron-marked blade then he kicks his ass. Those were some fun times :^:

Oh well, I digress... the series has always held my interest, even in times when some characters just disappeared for a few thousand pages (or for 40 or 50 hours in my case)... the frustration at their missing just goes to show how compelling the characters have been.

The Knife of Dreams was a nice place to leave off, really aside from Tarmon Gai'don the only storyline I'm particularly unsatisfied with is Egwene and the White Tower... that one drove me nuts for the last half of the book and I was praying the whole time that I'd find out what happened by the end :( Poor hobo.
And Moiraine... I had just about given up on her, but not quite--I knew that if there wasn't a body then she wasn't dead.

I also like how Perrin and Mat are popping up in the prophecies lately... I've noticed some parallels with some figures of mythology as well, which is cool.

It's really quite a lot to think about all at once... what are all of your thoughts? I know you're out there Wheel-of-Timers :) We even used to have a WoT forum here. Favorite characters? Favorite storylines? Least favorite whatever...?

[Bandicoot]

Okay, well my re-read is 30 pages short of completion, which means that I start Knife of Dreams tomorrow, gimmie a month and I'll be cool chating that with you, though in the mean time I'm certain that there are plenty of members to discuss things with.

BTW, Who did you say Rand's mum was? 'cause Elayne is pregnant with his child, and it sounded like you called them siblings.

[Singin Hobo]

I'm pretty certain that Morgase is the first of house Trakand to rule Andor, previously it was another house whose daughter ran off for some reason (I don't remember exactly, it was many books ago) and eventually joined the Aiel... it's in that section when Rand is learning about the history of Andor while he was in the palace at Caemlyn for all that time... it coincided quite well with the story the Maidens told Rand about the woman in silks who they rescued from the waste and accepted as one of their own.

Maybe it wasn't actually the ruling family at the time (I'm not so sure, the details were always a little twisted, and you miss a thing or two when listening) but it was an Andoran family and I'm almost positive that the two are the same person. I think it was Rand even who asked how close the relationship between that house and Trakand were (I guess to ease the minds of those of us who figured it out) and they were like 36th cousins or something like that.

[Bandicoot]

Ignore me, I missed that Tigraine was his mother first time I read them, and noticed it during the re-read.

It was her absence that meant that there was a sucsession (damn that spelling) for the crown of andor in the first, place, which Trankaard won. Different families. my bad.

btw, if you want a good resource for connections, spelling and information, check out http://wot.wikia.com - it's the Wheel of Time wikipedia.

[shortkut]

basically rand asked someone how related to elayne he would be if they were common farmers and he was told they would not be considered related.

tigraine or however it was spelt was the daughter of the ruling queen. she was sent to the white tower like all daughter-heirs were and her brother was to receive warder training. after talking to the one aes-sedai with the power of foretelling, she left to go to the waste (became a maiden and gave birth to rand on dragon mount) and then her brother went to the blight and got merged with isam (lan's cousin) to become slayer. if i remember correctly their mother then became heart broken and died, but because there was no daughter-heir, the other houses started fighting for control.

i believe that is all right

interesting link bandi, i used to look at these sites:
http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/ (has every piece of info you could want)
http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/0_admin/0.01_intro.html (has not been updated in a long time)

[Singin Hobo]

Yeah, I've looked at the Wiki... there really isn't a great resource out there... like that wiki has a section for Wolfbrothers and Married Men but not for Warders... what the freak?

Anyhoo, there is a contest going on for WoT artwork and they're going to release a calendar in 2009 :^: Awesome.
Also, RJ is doing pretty terrible health-wise... his latest blog isn't as hopeful as some of his previous entries have been, but he's still confident that Memory of Light will get finished. He's going to try to release the prologue in August, so that'll be a sweet, sweet scrap of happiness.

I'm re-reading the series right now, I'm halfway through New Spring right now and will probably start a new thread about it. I know we used to have a WoT forum here, but what would you guys think about there being a sub-forum in the books forum for WoT? The activity rules aren't typically as stringent on sub-forums.

[shortkut]

i think the WoT forum was supposed to be moved as a subforum, but it was so dead no one even cared. i have the encyclopedia book thing robert jordan put out and i had scanned in photos of the world map (specific areas and it entirely.) i could link to them again if anyone wants.

shame about jordan's health. i have not checked his blog in a while. last i checked he seemed to have been doing a lot better than when he first started telling us about it. i had been hoping he would be able to have a relatively normal life with it, but what can you do :(

i had been looking at my old bookmarks and i found a few more WoT links, both seem to be up to date

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/%7Ekarlh/wot.html
-- every character. i do not think there is a complete list, but there is a list per book
-- organized for each list by:
chronological listing of characters (order they appear in the book)
Alphabetical listing by last name
Alphabetical listing by first name

http://www.users.bigpond.com/steven_cooper/wotchron.htm
-- complete timeline broken up by books. it even has where they overlap
i was looking at this the other day and there are some events in KoD that i don't remember happening. i plan on starting to reread it again soon.

[Singin Hobo]

Okay, I was talking to my brother-in-law this weekend about WoT and we were looking at some of the latest images that this guy posted (http://seamassketches.blogspot.com/2007/07/wheel-of-time-series-i-finally-got.html) (greatest WoT art ever, btw)... and he brought up something that is painfully obvious to me now...

Olver is Gaidal Cain.

So either I'm a complete ass for not realizing it myself, or I just blew your minds :^:

[shortkut]

time cannot move backwards in the world of dreams. olver had already been born for a number of years when cain was seen as a shadow talking with birgette. i believe we had already been introduced to olver by the time we find out that cain was spun out. i suppose jordan can do what he wants, but i doubt it.

[Singin Hobo]

Well, I still haven't made it that far into my re-reading... but he seems to have allowed himself some liberties with Tel’aran’rhiod. I'll be able to catch the precise wording when it comes back around, but I seem to remember Brigitte moaning about Gaidal having possibly been born for some years at that point. I don't know, it just seems to seem

[shortkut]

it seems likely, but all we have been shown with tel'aran'rhiod regarding time is that time moves forward but at different rates. each time they went to see birgette, different amounts of time passed in the real word and in the world of dreams, but never did they meet her before that first time. years might have passed in the world of dreams, but not in the real world.