gay controversy split

[Schteve]

Well, there certainly isn't any choice involved. Just ask a straight person if they can suddenly choose to start liking people of the same sex just like that...'cause they can't.

However, whether it's something that's there from birth is a better question. It's probably a little bit of that and influences on people as they grow up...but I think I'd have to go more with genetics or whatever. Some gay people just don't have much (if anything) around that that would raise them to be gay if they wouldn't be otherwise...like all those in homophobic communities (which is another reason why it being a choice makes little sense). And there are cases of siblings (especially twins) both being gay...which would make it seem like there's a gay gene or something. But who knows....

[Crazy Jamie]

As Schteve said, it isn't a choice.

The second question is a harder one to answer. The reason why I wouldn't say people are necessarily born gay is because there are instances where people are hetereosexual, and even married with children, and then 'turn' gay (for want of a better word). On the other hand, I've never gone through such an experience so wouldn't know whether this is a true case of feelings developing afresh, or whether people in such situations simply repress feelings that are already there for one reason or another.

[Magus]

I think definitely childhood influence has a lot to do with it. I know guys, not necessarily gay, that grew up with nothing but women (i.e. their father died or have all sisters, etc.) that seem to be very homosexual.

Also, maybe the way someone communicates with their peers in childhood can determine this. Maybe if a guy doesn't communicate well with girls, he's led to believe he's not supposed to communicate with them...

I don't think there's an actual gene that induces homosexuality, but the way you are raised as a child can have some determining factors, in my opinion.

[Crazy Jamie]

I think definitely childhood influence has a lot to do with it. I know guys, not necessarily gay, that grew up with nothing but women (i.e. their father died or have all sisters, etc.) that seem to be very homosexual.
This is certainly possible, though still doesn't account for those people who have heterosexual relationships and are married before they come out. Unless they actually supress those feelings, as I said before.

Also, maybe the way someone communicates with their peers in childhood can determine this. Maybe if a guy doesn't communicate well with girls, he's led to believe he's not supposed to communicate with them...
I really don't think so. If that was the case then a good number of students who go to all boys/girls schools would turn out to be gay.

[Mankind.]

Actually i think i remember my biologoly teacher saying something about a chromosome disorder or something like that. Homo and hetrozyous stuff. Can't fully remember

[Schteve]

The reason why I wouldn't say people are necessarily born gay is because there are instances where people are hetereosexual, and even married with children, and then 'turn' gay (for want of a better word). On the other hand, I've never gone through such an experience so wouldn't know whether this is a true case of feelings developing afresh, or whether people in such situations simply repress feelings that are already there for one reason or another.Yeah, I'd say it's the latter. If you basically just ignore it and all it's not that hard to go on living as a heterosexual. But sometimes it just gets to be too much for people, and they crack. I doubt any straight guy is in some happy relationship and wakes up one day and is like "Wow, I suddenly like men."



I think definitely childhood influence has a lot to do with it. I know guys, not necessarily gay, that grew up with nothing but women (i.e. their father died or have all sisters, etc.) that seem to be very homosexual.Well yeah, and there are plenty that aren't in that situation. Or even the exact opposite situation. Say a boy is raised only around other guys. You could just as easily argue that he ends up liking men because that's all he was ever around.



I really don't think so. If that was the case then a good number of students who go to all boys/girls schools would turn out to be gay.Oh please, Jamie. :tease: I think a good number are. I went to an all boys high school, and the three friends I regularly still see and talk to and visit and stuff are all gay. And like 80% of those I hung around with outside of classes were gay as well.

And of course, the weird bit about it is that none of us (for the most part) knew any of the others were gay when we became friends. Heh. And it's certainly not the reason I'm still in contact with them.

[Crazy Jamie]

Oh please, Jamie. :tease: I think a good number are. I went to an all boys high schoolAs did I Mr Schteve, and I know of two people out of my year of 75ish that are gay (plus one more who I'm certain is but doesn't admit it yet, so three), and three in the year below that are gay. In my experience, the ratio of people who turned out to be gay in this all male school were not significantly different to the national average.

[Schteve]

Pft, there's probably plenty more from your school. They're just not likely to advertise it because of that environment.

[Pakkun]

I grew up in and graduated from your normal middle america (actually the south) High School. There wasn't alot of influence for me to 'swing' either way. It's always just been there. I had a great relationship with both my mother and father. Again, it was just there. I'm not sure what caused me to be gay or even if anything caused me to be gay.

I think it's just the way I am, just as straight people are straight. Perhaps because it is so frowned upon people are just looking for a way to explain it rather than seeing it as another quirk of humanity.

Or, perhaps, maybe, it's natures way of telling us not to breed.:D

[Schteve]

Or, perhaps, maybe, it's natures way of telling us not to breed.:DI'd certainly hope not. :tease:

[dark knight]

DKX here.. and I think it might actually have something to do with birth.. or rather the prenatal development. it has to do with horemones(SP?) Estrogen and Testosterone. those tw horemones are a deciding factor on the brain when someone decides they like another person. in the case o guys, testosterone.. in he case of women, estrogen.. but what apens when a guy has a hiher then normal level o estrogen, sense both genders have oth hormones? and what happens when a woman has higher then ormal levels of testosterone? there's some food for thought.

[Magus]

You would definitely become more womanly (or manly, in a woman's case) and possibly even begin to like the same sex. Good point. Definitely a determining factor.

But what causes the increased levels of testosterone/estrogen?


Heh... The Longest Yard...

[Pakkun]

those tw horemones are a deciding factor on the brain when someone decides they like another person.

Again, it's hard say if thats a decision anyone can really make. Personally it's not one I made.

Say there are those who did have a higher estrogen level when there mother was carrying them. Or their mother had high estrogen levels while carrying them, which ever way it would work. Wouldn't they turn of more masculine/femanine depending on their situation.

Personally being male, I don't really have any femanine tendencies.

I don't know.

[Fleanix]

I think it can be a number of things, I know some people who were effeminite from a very young age, and I also know people who didn't know until they were older. Most of the time though I think it's a mixture of nature and nurture. I was always attracted to guys but I didn't really admit it to myself until four-five years ago because I was brought up to believe that homosexuality (or bisexuality, in my case) is wrong.

[LIVE WITH IT]

It's really hard to say. Most teenagers, I believe, make a choice at one point in their lives. I'm guessing that during puberty teenagers 'experiment' and aren't really sure who they like. It inevitably comes down to choice and preference in the end, I'm thinking.

[Fleanix]

I don't know many people who would choose to like members of the same sex, if only because of the b.s. some people put you through because of it.

[jaymak]

it's a choice each person makes. i don't give a f*ck if you're a *** and say differently.

[Schteve]

Yeah, I'm sure others love choosing to get bashed by people like you.

[jaymak]

haha just cuz i don't agree with them assing each other doesn't mean i wanna touch them!

[Fleanix]

I like how you just make claims with nothing to back them up at all except prejudiced and potentially hurtful remarks. If I could CHOOSE to not be bisexual, I would, because of people like you that give me crap about it constantly. I wish close minded people like you would just grow up a little bit.

[Daegon]

haha just cuz i don't agree with them assing each other doesn't mean i wanna touch them!

People don't choose to be homosexual, or bisexual, it all happens at birth.

Homosexual's aren't necessarily homosexual by any standard, they just prefer the company of the same sex more. When you're born, homosexual's are born with an enlarged abdula oblongata, which makes them enjoy the company of the same sex more and makes them attracted to them.

There is no "choice" in the matter, I'm sure if there was a choice they'd choose not to to save themselves from people who bash them.

[Schteve]

haha just cuz i don't agree with them assing each other doesn't mean i wanna touch them!And touching them has to do with choosing to be gay how?

[jaymak]

just to clarify, being a homo is a choice.

[Fleanix]

what the hell dude? you're just going to keep restating the same thing over and over? do you think that makes it more true or something? are you so self centered to think that there couldn't be another realm of existence outside how you live?

[Pakkun]

just to clarify, being a homo is a choice.


Right, so Lets get this "straight". You wake up every morning and choose to find females attractive?

You choose your reptilian nature to see large hips and their reproductive value as beautiful?

You choose to find breasts attractive and the fact that large ones may better feed your offspring?

For one, personally, I didn't choose to go through the torment of hiding my true feelings and living my life a lie. I didn't choose to be hated for who I am.

[Schteve]

just to clarify, being a homo is a choice.
Yeah, Everglow is right. Do you honesty have no more attraction to females than you do to males, and you just consciously make the choice yourself?

Plus, there's all the gay people in here totally disagreeing with you and saying they didn't choose a thing....

[The_Mess]

just to clarify, being a homo is a choice.
Proof please. Else I start abusing my university database privileges. But I really shouldn't need to do that, because of the facts and personal experiences that have already been mentioned here. If you can't understand that I suggest you go back to school and partake in an activity called "learning" which should involve the concepts of "thinking" and "reasoning".

And don't be cute and take the pseudo-intellectual path...

[Cluck.]

Right, so Lets get this "straight". I see what you did there.

Personally, I don't know. I honestly think people aren't born gay. It's just not human nature. But then again, it can't really be a choice, as i've seen from the arguments. I've acually never really thought about it.

[Fleanix]

How is it not natural if you're attracted to the same sex from birth hahaha. Not saying I was, I'm not sure when it happened, but I know people who were never interested in the opposite sex for any period of time.

[Cluck.]

Human nature is to reproduce, which isn't possible with two dudes.

[Fleanix]

point taken, but what about heterosexual couples that practice anal sex? or even oral sex?

[Schteve]

Human nature is to reproduce, which isn't possible with two dudes.No, it's natural to have fun and pleasure yourself. Babies popping out is just a fortunate side effect. Do you really think animals are thinking "Hmm, we'd better prolong our species" rather than "Man, I'm horny! Where's my woman at?"

[gamertech]

Most of the time though I think it's a mixture of nature and nurture.
That's probably the most accurate explanation. I tend to think it's more on the nurture side. The environment people grow up in can significantly affect their activities and - by extension - their ultimate attractions. Some people are "messed with" (for lack of a better term) while young (either by peers, siblings, or older people) and begin to associate that with feelings of "being wanted", "feelings of pleasure" or sexual "rightness".

Others are probably just born with tendencies toward the same sex. Whether it's actually genetic predisposition is beyond me but I'm sure that - for whatever reasons - many people just develope that attraction from a very young age.

I don't believe there's ever a conscience "choice" as to attraction though; only a choice as to what is done about those attractions. I think those who "come out" later in life probably always had those feelings and are just finally coming to grips with their true desires. Factors such as others' opinions and society certainly effect how honest someone is with the face they present to the world.

[Fool's Requiem]

I don't care what anyone says about people being born gay. You choose to be gay... that's it. There is no setting in your brain that automatically goes to gay when birth happens. You turn have to turn it on.

[Schteve]

So you agree you could just as easily turn it on in yourself if you wanted, you just choose not to, right?

[Fleanix]

yeah nice reasoning, you think it's a choice and that's that. if you can't have a mature discussion then get out. you obviously didn't read a damn post, you're just prejudiced and had to throw your unwanted two cents in. simple minded people piss me off so much. NOTHING CAN EXIST OUTSIDE MY REALM OF BEING!!!

next you'll be saying people choose to be black or handicapped

[Schteve]

yeah nice reasoning, you think it's a choice and that's that. if you can't have a mature discussion then get out. you obviously didn't read a damn post, you're just prejudiced and had to throw your unwanted two cents in. simple minded people piss me off so much. NOTHING CAN EXIST OUTSIDE MY REALM OF BEING!!!In all honesty, there's not more more he can provide as proof than personal experience (hence my question for him), which is what most of the people on the other side have done.

[Fleanix]

I just don't get how someone can be so ignorant about a subject yet still have strong views towards it. He's not gay or bi, so he has no business claiming OH YEAH IT'S A CHOICE. It's quite offensive to me when someone says, "yeah, you chose to like guys, you chose daily ridicule and chose to be the butt of every joke your friends make anymore. And it's just ridiculous, he's basically saying you can choose when you get erections. It's like, "hmmm i don't really like guys but I want to so i'm gonna get an erection when I see them naked". THAT MAKES NO SENSE! people annoy me so much, god.

[Crazy Jamie]

I find it funny that we've got some straight guys coming into this thread saying 'being gay is a choice' when they surely must realise that they cannot just start to find men attractive. I know they don't want to, but because they don't want to they're ignoring the fact that they can't. Which somewhat obliterates their entire argument. Not wanting to and not being able to are two different things.

[Fleanix]

they're not even making arguments, they're just repeating what they've learned from their bigoted parents or guardians, kind of like monkeys except just a little bit smarter. you can't get through to these people because they won't listen to anything that disagrees with how they've been brought up.

[Schteve]

...Again, hence my questions. If they honestly think it's a choice then they will of course admit that they choose to like women on a daily basis, and could just as easily suddenly start liking men. If someone's like that, why should he think any differently?

I'm just waiting for someone to actually meet that impossibe criterion. :)

[dark knight]

DKX here... schteve.... regarding that criteria...err... it was ndeed a choice for e actually... I decided to ake the conscious decision to try liking guys.. and after awhile of relativly faking it, I did indeed begin to like guys.. it's different for everyone, wheras some people don't technically have a choice since it's their subconsciouos that makes the decision.. for some people.. they are make a choice...

[Fleanix]

so you had absolutely no attraction to guys but you decided to sleep with them anyway? that really doesn't make sense to me, but whatever.

[dark knight]

DKX again

it's not quite like that, it's hard to explain.. I've actually never 'slept' with a guy before. but in escence, you'e right I had absolutely no attraction to guys originally. It's not hat I was closed minded I just didn't feel any attraction. anyways, I met this gay guy an after talking with him for awhile, I made the decision that I would give guys a chance.

I'd like to make a final note on this regarding the fact he was actually th first guy gave a chance...

[Schteve]

Hurray, at least one person has something to back up his claims of personal choice with. :tease:

[gamertech]

DKX again

it's not quite like that, it's hard to explain.. I've actually never 'slept' with a guy before. but in escence, you'e right I had absolutely no attraction to guys originally. It's not hat I was closed minded I just didn't feel any attraction. anyways, I met this gay guy an after talking with him for awhile, I made the decision that I would give guys a chance.

I'd like to make a final note on this regarding the fact he was actually th first guy gave a chance...
I hope dark knight, your wife, doesn't read that. That can of knowledge of one's spouse has a way of coming back to haunt.

Srry, I meant that kind of knowledge...

[Schteve]

Or, you know, she knows everything about him like she should.

[gamertech]

Or, you know, she knows everything about him like she should.
True but people rarely reveal their "everything" and if things come out that surprise a mate - such as that could - who knows what may happen: jealousy, anger, betrayal.

Anyway, it was just a thought. I know it's happened before where that kind of knowledge has ruined perfectly fine relationships for no good reason. I'd say that as long as you're not cheating on your spouse then your past isn't everything.

On the other hand, I've a good friend who married a lesbian (probably more bi). They've been very happily married for 15 years now. She's "completely straight" now and they seem to be soul mates. So you never know :shrug:

[Pakkun]

DKX again

it's not quite like that, it's hard to explain.. I've actually never 'slept' with a guy before. but in escence, you'e right I had absolutely no attraction to guys originally. It's not hat I was closed minded I just didn't feel any attraction. anyways, I met this gay guy an after talking with him for awhile, I made the decision that I would give guys a chance.

I'd like to make a final note on this regarding the fact he was actually th first guy gave a chance...



That works same way brainwashing works. I Think it was Hitler that said something along of the lines of: If you tell a lie long enough, loud enough and often enough you will eventually believe it yourself.

On the other side of the coin, being raised in the conservative southern bible belt I always felt like there was something wrong with me. So I tried liking girls, I even dated a few girls, there was seriously nothing there. It was even worse than being myself, I was living a lie. Not only was I emotionally disturbing myself I was giving these girls a false sense of love and affection.

It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for what you will never be.

Look I know not everyone is going to believe what has been typed here and I could ramble on about how I'm telling the truth and I'm being honest but I can't help what other people are going to believe. All I (or anyone really) can ask for is a little understanding, paitence, civilaity and maybe some open mindedness.

[dark knight]

DKX here once again, merely to state that my wife is well aware... check out the bisexuality topic if you want proof.. <.< in any case, yes will say for me it was a choice, perhaps you re right in that conditioned myself to have the sexual preferance that I have today.. but I made the choice to do it, no one made me... so yes I'l say t was a choice. I unerstand that it's no neccesarily a choice or evryone, everyone is different, to each their own. Jusr ike I said earlier that certain irregulr levels of hormones during prenatal growth can effect it, so can people make a choie, simply mut vry few make the choice to try because of general held beleifs on homosexuality.. me.. I don't care what mot people ight say or think, sine most people are closed-minded and are only sayin what they were taught... others.. ell. they can insult me all they want but considering where it's coming fo.. it's not much of an insult.

[Crazy Jamie]

I met this gay guy an after talking with him for awhile, I made the decision that I would give guys a chance.
So surely you must have had an attraction to that guy on some level before which encouraged you to make that decision? A decision which perhaps was more to explore those potential feelings rather than trying to develop feelings completely from scratch? This isn't me trying to prove you wrong in any way. This is me being curious about something that I've never heard anyone claim before.

[Fleanix]

DKX, you were curious at least, correct? If you were curious about homosexuality, then you had to have at least the smallest subconcious attraction to males first, right? I just don't know a lot of people who wish to sleep with people that they're not attracted to on any level.

[dark knight]

DKX again

I can say simply with 100% truth because my memories of the events and my emotion are very clear n my mind, no I did not feel any attraction past friendship, not atfirst, not until a good while after I made the decision to try to like guys. yes, what I did was, in a way, brainwashing myself, conditioning myself to like guys in a way that as more than friendship. And no to be honost I didn't want to sleep with him, you're right. my wishes to sleep with other guys came later, as I grew more comfortable with my decision practice in homosexuality... now what's kinda sad is that I prefer guys over girls but meh :p I still prefer my wife over anyone else.

I really wish I could explain it better, but this is really hard to explain. I know what happened, I remember everything clearly but I'm not going to tell the whole story.. that's too personal to tell.

A decision which perhaps was more to explore those potential feelings rather than trying to develop feelings completely from scratch?

Simply put, basically, though I didn't have to develop feelings totally from scratch, he was already a good friend so I had a start, I on't think back then I would have been able to just suddenly like some random guy... >.> now to be honost.. or rather before I married my wife, I checked out guy's butts all the time..that habit stopped since I got married, ut that was deffinatly no how it was in the begining. iut's not that I had any outstanding feelins for the guy to egin with, but being a friend, i was easier to start liking him aftr I made my decision.

[gamertech]

DKX again

... now what's kinda sad is that I prefer guys over girls but meh :p I still prefer my wife over anyone else.
..and that's the very kind of thing I was suggesting can come back to bite thy ass.

[Fleanix]

so I'm guessing homophobia isn't much of a problem in your area if you chose to start liking guys. I know if I had a choice I probably wouldn't choose to like other males, if only because I'd get less ribbing and insulting.

[Schteve]

..and that's the very kind of thing I was suggesting can come back to bite thy ass.Again, she already knows that. Read the bisexuality topic he mentioned before you start assuming things. :tease:

[gamertech]

Again, she already knows that. Read the bisexuality topic he mentioned before you start assuming things. :tease:
I was making a statement about relationships in general to tie in with my previous post. That way no one has any misconceptions about what I meant. He already made it clear that she knows and - since she's also a member of this site AND it's her account he's using - I'd say that's pretty obvious. I'm not assuming that she's "blissfully unaware".

Gee, I think I'll quit coming out (no pun or hidden meanings intended) to play. You people are no fun at all. :whatever:

Sorry for the DP:

Oh and by the way, I did read the other thread and if I had to predict the future I'd say that it will come back to bite both of theirs asses, though I was making a general statement.

So there, good luck with making your wife share your love. You'd think commitment would have a great significance but I guess I'm just old fashioned. There, you backed me into a corner and got bit.

[Fleanix]

commitment isn't always necessary for a good relationship, a lot of people have open relationships. i'm not saying dkx has one, i'm just saying that just because it's different doesn't mean it is doomed to failure.

[gamertech]

commitment isn't always necessary for a good relationship, a lot of people have open relationships. i'm not saying dkx has one, i'm just saying that just because it's different doesn't mean it is doomed to failure.I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I think commitment is extremely important for both parties involved. After all, marriage is a vow of commitment. I don't know what world you guys come from but commitment actually means something to me.

[dark knight]

it means something to me too, but not to the extent to risk my relationship with my wonderfull loveing and careing hubby ^^

Our family comes first, no matter what and he knows that and he isn't going to do somethin that would risk that, nor is he going to run off with someone else because he might want something else, tempararally, as some people do sometimes and not come back to me. hey he even told me of how this thread was devloping before my curriousity was piked and I decided to check out what was said.

We discuss things often, and I trully do love the fact that he trusts me enouugh to approch me with anything that might be on his mind or bugging him. To me the thought of him sneakin around and hideing things from me for a extended period of time (nice surprizes ansd such excluded) bugs me more tha the thought of haveing to share him temperarily.

anything above that is a different matter and a different disscussion between us should it be nessisary.

[gamertech]

You, DK, have a heart of gold. But, you know what? You deserve some one who will be as loyal and committed to you as you are to them. If you're content with his extracurricular activities then so be it. I ask you to search your soul and decide what you truly want from your marriage. Don't you want your husband's undivided attention? Whether you feel you deserve it or not, you do. Everyone has the right to demand that they be the apple of their lover's eye and, sadly, I just don't see that being the case.

So you know, I'm not out to dismantle your relationship but, dear, you are being short-changed and it's wrong; wrong for you and for your child. And honestly, I can't think of a more selfish act than the one he chooses to impose upon you.

You know, I've been cheated on by women. I was engaged to one of them and let me tell you, one day you're going to wake up and realize that you are not being treated right. It's not fair at all that you give some one your heart and he takes "I do" to mean "I do whomever I please". If your spouse doesn't have eyes only for you them something is seriously wrong. "Whomever I please" means - to me - that "you aren't enough for me." If he can't bring himself to respect your vows then what does that say about his character?

All I ask is that you dig deep and figure out that you are as important as he and that you have every right (and for your child's sake, responsibility) to demand that you be respected and loved in full, not part time. You don't have to settle for convenient, fair-weather commitment. I truly wish you the very best :hug:

And, yes, I'd make the same call for any couple in your position, regardless of sexual preferences. This is much deeper than that. So I hope neither of you think I'm attacking you personally. All I'm saying is that if you value your long-term commitment then it's time to actually make a long-term commitment. Love is give andtake.

[dark knight]

All I ask is that you dig deep and figure out that you are as important as he and that you have every right (and for your child's sake, responsibility) to demand that you be respected and loved in full, not part time. You don't have to settle for convenient, fair-weather commitment. I truly wish you the very best :hug:



DKX here.

are you basically sayin that I do not fully love my wife 100% all the time? and are you saying a human is not capable of loving more than one person at a given time? By that meaning, then if I love my wife 100% all the time then I couldn't love my son since that would mean I'm not loving my wife 100% also. Humans are capable of sharing love without deminishing the love they feel for another. Just so you know, I'm not out "doing" people... nor have I ever done that in my life. my wife is the only person I've "done". Just bcause I have room in my heart for someone 0ther than my mife does not mean that I do not love her 100% all the time, or that I do not love my son 100% all the time.

dark knight takeing back over my account....


You, DK, have a heart of gold. But, you know what? You deserve some one who will be as loyal and committed to you as you are to them. If you're content with his extracurricular activities then so be it. I ask you to search your soul and decide what you truly want from your marriage. Don't you want your husband's undivided attention? Whether you feel you deserve it or not, you do. Everyone has the right to demand that they be the apple of their lover's eye and, sadly, I just don't see that being the case.


He would be loyal and totally commited to me and fully intened to be, though durrong the past year I have thought on it long and hard and about 3-4 months back or so told him that if he wanted to spend time or have a night with someone else I wouldn't hold it against him. I like his undevided attention, but ther is this time every so often that he is in a different mood, and I know I can't make him as happy as he could be. That frustrates me and my solution was to offer him the chance to be with someone else for those times. If I was to ever change my mind on this and ask him to just be with me, he would. Right now he has had a few online relationships, nothing that has been able to progress to the point of being rl relationship that might compromise anyone's values. Sure some people would flip out over just that, some flip out at their lover checking out someone else. to contrast that some watch porn together and find that more exotic... each couple is unique.

I thank you for the compliment, at a different time I'd half deni or not belive that sort o thing.... my self esteme though still wounded from my school years is healing. And yes I feel I am worth it. I'm worth being happy, and it makes me happy to see DKx happy and content and I would go through anything to try to acheive him be9ng happy.

[gamertech]

DKX here.

are you basically sayin that I do not fully love my wife 100% all the time? and are you saying a human is not capable of loving more than one person at a given time? By that meaning, then if I love my wife 100% all the time then I couldn't love my son since that would mean I'm not loving my wife 100% also.
Not exactly but I am saying that marriage is a physical and emotional commitment. It's not just a piece of paper that says, "I'll wear the ring". I'm no marriage counselor but I know that people don't like being thought of as a secondary priority. Marriage has deteriorated into nothing more than boyfriend/girlfriend with legal benefits (in today's world) and it saddens me. You have a wife who's dealt with your torn heart but she needs your complete mindshare. Your child needs you to be there too. I don't want to see you two end up yet another statistic of the wandering eye.
Humans are capable of sharing love without deminishing the love they feel for another. Just so you know, I'm not out "doing" people... nor have I ever done that in my life. my wife is the only person I've "done". Just bcause I have room in my heart for someone 0ther than my mife does not mean that I do not love her 100% all the time, or that I do not love my son 100% all the time.I understand that you love your wife and son. But, my friend, do they know that? I mean really know that. Words are a start but you must follow through with actions that state - undeniably - that "You are my one and only". See what I'm saying? You don't know what you have until you lose it; don't risk it. The ultimate display of love is selflessness - remember that, my friend.

dark knight takeing back over my account....

He would be loyal and totally commited to me and fully intened to be, though durrong the past year I have thought on it long and hard and about 3-4 months back or so told him that if he wanted to spend time or have a night with someone else I wouldn't hold it against him. I like his undevided attention, but ther is this time every so often that he is in a different mood, and I know I can't make him as happy as he could be. That frustrates me and my solution was to offer him the chance to be with someone else for those times. If I was to ever change my mind on this and ask him to just be with me, he would. Right now he has had a few online relationships, nothing that has been able to progress to the point of being rl relationship that might compromise anyone's values. Sure some people would flip out over just that, some flip out at their lover checking out someone else. to contrast that some watch porn together and find that more exotic... each couple is unique. Checking some one else out is perfectly fine. You can look at whichever menu you choose but when dinner time comes you'd better be at the right table or that meals gets awfully cold awfully fast. The same goes for a healthy relationship.

You both have the power to turn your life around. Don't only tell - show - that your spouse is the one for you. The time for others expired when you walked down that isle. DK, I know you want for his happiness. It shows. But remember, you have to be happy too. Sharing some one's affection isn't not the key to happiness and over time it can really wear you down emotionally.

Now you two take some time, look each other in the eyes and commit once and for all. You'll thank yourselves for taking that advice - or you'll kick yourselves for ignoring what's at stake here. Either way, only you can choose. I hope you do what you know needs to be done.

...nothing that has been able to progress to the point of being rl relationship that might compromise anyone's values.I hate to point out the obvious but, you've already compromised in a very big way.

Consider this tough love. Best of luck, I'm pulling for you both.

[Schteve]

After all, marriage is a vow of commitment.No, it's a tax break. :tease: I know that goes against what you stated in your most recent post, but hey, it's true. How does being married change the emotional status of a relationship? It doesn't. (Hell, more than a few hundred years ago, people didn't even marry people they liked...it was all prearranged stuff.)



are you basically sayin that I do not fully love my wife 100% all the time? and are you saying a human is not capable of loving more than one person at a given time? By that meaning, then if I love my wife 100% all the time then I couldn't love my son since that would mean I'm not loving my wife 100% also. Humans are capable of sharing love without deminishing the love they feel for another. Love is a word loaded with meaning. You can love lots of things lots of ways. And of course, the way you love your son is certainly not the same as how you love your wife. You can't have full sexual love (by which I mean the Greek word eros) for your wife if you have and act on a sexual attractions to anyone else.

[Fleanix]

i think it's okay to love someone and sleep with someone else as long as your partner is okay with it. i realize a lot of people don't think this way, and that's fine. different strokes for different folks :P

[gamertech]

No, it's a tax break. :tease: I know that goes against what you stated in your most recent post, but hey, it's true.No, it's actually in sync with part of my post...
Marriage has deteriorated into nothing more than boyfriend/girlfriend with legal benefits (in today's world) and it saddens me.
How does being married change the emotional status of a relationship?
...if that's all it means to you then it doesn't. But there's a symbolism there that often missing. As insignificant as some may believe "symbolism" to be, it has far greater power than you give it credit for.

[Px2]

Not exactly but I am saying that marriage is a physical and emotional commitment. It's not just a piece of paper that says, "I'll wear the ring". I'm no marriage counselor but I know that people don't like being thought of as a secondary priority. Marriage has deteriorated into nothing more than boyfriend/girlfriend with legal benefits (in today's world) and it saddens me.

Sexual fulfillment is a necessary component of any relationship. Unfortunately, that can't always be obtained within one. So we must go outside. Oh well. Get over it. Nobody is being made secondary priority. Thousands of gay couples pull off open relationships flawlessly. If it were more accepted in the heterosexual world, than a lot of marriages might be saved.

Screw symbolism. The quality of a relationship is not determined by symbolism.

As for the thread topic: whatever. Hey, I guess if Ted Haggard, the meth-snorting gay-prostitute-banging evangelical preacher, can be completely "cured" of his homosexuality in just three weeks, then so can I!
:woohoo:

[gamertech]

Sexual fulfillment is a necessary component of any relationship. Unfortunately, that can't always be obtained within one. So we must go outside.That speaks volumes of you. I'll have to keep in mind never to believe any promises you make; you don't even value the ultimate promise :shake:

Oh well. Get over it. Nobody is being made secondary priority.You obviously have no idea what "priority" means, do you?

Screw symbolism. The quality of a relationship is not determined by symbolism.I'm suddenly very disappointed in the members here at GW. Hearing you say that is a sure sign that you live a shallow, meaningless life. Congratulations, you've broken gamertech's heart.

Screw symbolism? Yeah, and while you're at it: screw honor, screw integrity, screw 'your word', screw actually meaning what the hell you say and saying what the hell you mean. If you don't have honor, integrity and your word then what the hell do you have? Maybe you have nothing. Your personal promises apparently have no substance to them. I'm glad you've made your nature known to me. It's nice to know you're essentially not trustworthy.

Screw symbolism? You know, when a marriage is commenced, a promise (look it up, you might learn something about character and maybe grow a little as a Human being) is made. If you aren't willing or able to make that promise then what the hell are you going to get married for? Do you understand what the symbolism of marriage is? The symbolism is that you express commitment and a promise to your significant other. If you can't keep your F'in promise then what the hell good are you? If your word is worthless then you - as a person - pretty much follow suit.

[Fleanix]

hey now gamer, you can't judge a person based on their sex life. you need someone who is committed to you and doesn't look at anyone else, that's fine, but what works for you isn't going to work for everyone else.

i don't put much stock in symbols and such, and I don't put much stock in marriage either. first of all, if i fall in love with a man, i CAN'T get married. I don't need the government to give me a piece of paper to confirm my love for someone anyway, if I love them I can tell them and that should be enough.

i don't see how sleeping around reflects badly on trustworthiness anyway, AS LONG AS BOTH PARTIES ARE OKAY WITH IT. if your partner wants you to be faithful, then you should be faithful, but if they're okay with an open relationship, then what is the problem? people live their lives in different ways, if you have different convictions than I do, that's fine, but please don't belittle me because of it.

[Px2]

That speaks volumes of you. I'll have to keep in mind never to believe any promises you make; you don't even value the ultimate promise :shake:

Uh-huh. Have you ever heard a set of marriage vows? Look up some generic, secular ones. Note the only promise you make is 'til death do us part.' And as I said, for most couples, that parting will come much, much sooner if their sexual needs are not being met.

You obviously have no idea what "priority" means, do you?

LAWL. In a properly functioning open relationship, the people I"m screwing on the side would be second priority. The person I love, whom I maintain a complete emotional attachment to, would be the primary priority. Which definition of the word are you using?

I'm suddenly very disappointed in the members here at GW. Hearing you say that is a sure sign that you live a shallow, meaningless life. Congratulations, you've broken gamertech's heart.

Screw symbolism? Yeah, and while you're at it: screw honor, screw integrity, screw 'your word', screw actually meaning what the hell you say and saying what the hell you mean. If you don't have honor, integrity and your word then what the hell do you have? Maybe you have nothing. Your personal promises apparently have no substance to them. I'm glad you've made your nature known to me. It's nice to know you're essentially not trustworthy.

Screw symbolism? You know, when a marriage is commenced, a promise (look it up, you might learn something about character and maybe grow a little as a Human being) is made. If you aren't willing or able to make that promise then what the hell are you going to get married for? Do you understand what the symbolism of marriage is? The symbolism is that you express commitment and a promise to your significant other. If you can't keep your F'in promise then what the hell good are you? If your word is worthless then you - as a person - pretty much follow suit.
:bs:

O LAWD, IS DAT SOME AD HOMINEN?

And some red herrings, too, delicious! Honor and integrity have nothing to do with this. Here, let me repeat myself: screw symbolism. But I guess I'll clarify: screw symbolism because your usage of that word is associated with YOUR SPECIFIC INTERPRETATION OF MARRIAGE.

ALSO: my interpretation is supported by a reading of secular marriage vows

ALSO ALSO: my interpretation would save marriages, therefore making it more honorable and practically teaming with the very essence of integrity. So I guess honor and integrity do have something to do with it...

ALSO ALSO ALSO: I am in no way representative of GW's members.

[gamertech]

LAWL. In a properly functioning open relationship, the people I"m screwing on the side would be second priority.You're a real giver, aren't you?
Honor and integrity have nothing to do with this.If you only knew how wrong you are. It has everything to do with it.
ALSO ALSO: my interpretation would save marriages, therefore making it more honorable and practically teaming with the very essence of integrity. So I guess honor and integrity do have something to do with it...You're not only wrong but you're so wrong it's utterly laughable.
ALSO ALSO ALSO: I am in no way representative of GW's members.Then at least something good has come of this: I won't allow myself to be p!ssed at the others just because a few have no sense of honor.

You know what, I don't give a crap what you people do. All I can do is what I did - offer you the most sound advice anyone here is going to give you. As usual, I'm the only one who has the courage to say what needs to be said. No one else has the balls to stand up for what's right. It's so incredibly pitiful that people stand for this crap. "Walk all over me; I'm a piece of sh!t. Hell, as long as you're happy."

You see, when I say something you can count on my integrity. When I make a promise you can bet your cheating little ass that I'm going to stick to it. I have a little thing called pride. When I tell some one I love them, you can bet your ass I'm going to go out of my way to show them I mean it, not go around on a selfish pedestal getting mine and saying the hell with my mate. I've also got a very important quality known as loyalty. Oh yeah, don't forget consideration for others, a sense of duty, and the golden rule. You know, do unto others as... I guess I'm the only one in this thread that actually gives a sh!t about others, especially those who commit to me.

But, hell, you folks do whatever the hell you want and I hope you can sleep comfortably at the end of the day knowing how selfish and inconsiderate you are. I know I can.

And I hope you all enjoy your day in divorce court - oh yeah - it's coming. Explain that one to the kids :finger:

I'm so done with you people...

[Px2]

You're a real giver, aren't you?

I'm good, giving, and game. Can I say the same about you? What if halfway through your relationship your partner turns out to be thoroughly kinky? What if they want something that you just can't bring yourself to supply? WHAT DO YOU DO THEN, MISTER?

If you only knew how wrong you are. It has everything to do with it.
You're not only wrong but you're so wrong it's utterly laughable.

o sry, i almost forgots i was wrong. y u make such good point(s)???

All I can do is what I did - offer you the most sound advice anyone here is going to give you. As usual, I'm the only one who has the courage to say what needs to be said. No one else has the balls to stand up for what's right.* It's so incredibly pitiful that people stand for this crap. "Walk all over me; I'm a piece of sh!t. Hell, as long as you're happy."

You see, when I say something you can count on my integrity. When I make a promise you can bet your cheating little ass that I'm going to stick to it. I have a little thing called pride. When I tell some one I love them, you can bet your ass I'm going to go out of my way to show them I mean it, not go around on a selfish pedestal getting mine and saying the hell with my mate. I've also got a very important quality known as loyalty. Oh yeah, don't forget consideration for others, a sense of duty, and the golden rule. You know, do unto others as... I guess I'm the only one in this thread that actually gives a sh!t about others, especially those who commit to me.

But, hell, you folks do whatever the hell you want and I hope you can sleep comfortably at the end of the day knowing how selfish and inconsiderate you are. I know I can.

And I hope you all enjoy your day in divorce court - oh yeah - it's coming. Explain that one to the kids :finger:

I'm so done with you people...

Wow, I have to agree, what nice qualities you have. You seem to particularly excel at missing the point and sounding like a pretentious windbag. Oh, and the middle finger is an excellent finishing touch to a rant about how considerate you are.

Right.

It's selfish to keep your partner to yourself.

*Chairman ROFLMAO

[Fleanix]

wow someone is angry. once again, the way you live your life works for you, and that's great. if someone i loved wanted me to stay faithful to them i would, without question. but if two people agree that they don't mind seeing other people even though they love each other, who is it hurting? it's very offensive to listen to you make a generalization that i don't give a **** about anyone else because of one of my views on one subject.

[The_Mess]

As usual, I'm the only one who has the courage to say what needs to be said. No one else has the balls to stand up for what's right. It's so incredibly pitiful that people stand for this crap. "Walk all over me; I'm a piece of sh!t. Hell, as long as you're happy." I contest that, from a moral, philosophical and plain, "your being irritatingly arrogant".
In other words, only your viewpoint is "right" and anyone who disagrees is "wrong". Beautiful lack of higher rationalisation there and self-serving arrogance, with only opinion to back it up. I mean, forget anthropology and history when it comes to the contract of marriage, only your romanticised opinion matters and woe betide anyone who disagrees or point's out your possible wrong... You know, just because your right.

And pride, you do know that's interchangeable with arrogance right?

I'm so done with you people...
And that's your choice :^:

[Px2]

Fleanix, don't be offended, be amused. There's so many levels of lulz to what he just said.

[Pakkun]

I'm gone for one day and I come back to quotations upon quotations off topic. Amazing.

By the way
As usual, I'm the only one who has the courage to say what needs to be said. No one else has the balls to stand up for what's right. It's so incredibly pitiful that people stand for this crap. "Walk all over me; I'm a piece of sh!t. Hell, as long as you're happy."
You are not the only one standing yor ground. Everyone here is standing for something. Though it may not be what you're standing for everyone here has an opinion, thats just what it is.

[Schteve]

In other words, only your viewpoint is "right" and anyone who disagrees is "wrong". Beautiful lack of higher rationalisation there and self-serving arrogance, with only opinion to back it up. I mean, forget anthropology and history when it comes to the contract of marriage, only your romanticised opinion matters and woe betide anyone who disagrees or point's out your possible wrong... You know, just because your right. So is he wrong for any reason other than you're always right? :)

[The_Mess]

So is he wrong for any reason other than you're always right? :)
I'm not jackenape, ergo, I'm not always right :P

[Schteve]

Well, you're at least right there. The day jackenape is proven wrong is the day the world ends.

[jaymak]

im with gamertech on this one. all you p o o f s wanna do is f*ck everyone without any commitment.

marriage is so watered down these days that this is what you get.

'screw who you want, as long as your happy.'

why get married if u gonna be that selfish? you'll never have a properly successful marriage if that's your attitude.

and i don't care if you 'see it differently' because if you do then it's wrong.

[The_Mess]

Well, you're at least right there. The day jackenape is proven wrong is the day the world ends.
gah, I need to spread teh rep more...


...and i don't care if you 'see it differently' because if you do then it's wrong.
Teh stupid is strong with this one.

And congrats on the probable homo-slur warning, and I love your accurate observations on human nature. It's like you never socialised with other teenagers...

Oh, and my opinion, I don't mind what other people do. If it doesn't violate anyone else's human rights, nor cause "harm" then it's none of my business what consenting adults/"legal age" choose to do. That also counts for same sex marriage in my eyes, because I fail to see how it violates anyone else's rights, nor causes "harm". i.e. I think the "moral" harm issue that's brought up so much in this area is unjust and is merely another form of the illogical "slippery slope" argument.

And, on the original topic; From what I've read, sexual behaviour is mostly hardwired, whether it's genetic or environmental isn't known fully yet, but once the foetus's brain is developed, sexual behaviour is effectively set it stone. And bisexuality is neat, and the only theory I've heard really is that it's a case of high libido, i.e. they like one sex more than the other, but can still love either of the sexes.

[Px2]

yo, jay-mak, that picture in your signature reminds me of one of my ex-boyfriends. we should hook up some time :love:

[gamertech]

yo, jay-mak, that picture in your signature reminds me of one of my ex-boyfriends. we should hook up some time :love:So now this is Corpus Vile?

I've only two final statements here: At least I can say I respect dark knight and her husband. I don't agree with the way they do business but at least they believe marriage means something. Some others here act like it's meaningless BS yet, imply that they either are or plan to someday marry.

I'm with jay-mak (for the first time ever, probably). If you don't want to completely give your emotional and sexual commitment then - for the love of your partner - don't act like you want to. Morals and integrity are not the same thing, though they may often ride in on the same horse.

[Fleanix]

please don't side with the homophobe

marriage DOESN'T mean anything. great, you can have a religious ceremony to "prove" to everyone that you love someone. first of all, i can't get married if I happen to fall in love with a guy, and second, marriage has lost its sanctity anyway.

i want to (screw) everyone without commitment? i've been offered to sleep around with no strings attached many times, yet I haven't gotten laid in a while. hmmmmm well if i just want to sleep around without commitment wouldn't I have taken them up on those offers?

people assume so damn much in this place i swear to god

oh and "i don't care if you see it differently because if so you're wrong"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! hahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

omg, that is the most hilarious thing i've ever heard, MY OPINION IS RIGHT BECAUSE I SAY IT'S RIGHT hahahahahahahahaha!

[Schteve]

So now this is Corpus Vile?No, it's a quite clever shot at a guy who clearly hates homosexuals. :) Context, and all, you know.

[gamertech]

please don't side with the homophobeI'm siding with marriage as something more than dating with a paper. If Satan would have said that I'd agree with him too.

That's really all this is about; I'm upset because so many people today think of marriage as nothing more than a fancy name for dating. I don't have a problem, per se, with dating more than one person. But the rules change when dating becomes marriage.
marriage DOESN'T mean anything.Marriage doesn't have to be ushered in by a "religious" ceremony. I'm far from some one I'd consider a Christian. So my opinion comes from something besides Bible thumping.

You saying marriage doesn't mean anything just means that you never need to - nor should you ever - be married. And that's my point: Why talk about how you (anyone) are/will be/plan to be/want to be married if it means nothing to you? Why destroy the sanctity of marriage for the rest of us?

If marriage really means nothing to you - as you state - then you should have zero problem with my fight for the institution of marriage. If you really - as you say - don't care about marriage as it's come to be known then why are you so adamant that it not be preserved? It must have some kind of importance to you if you're so upset by my viewpoint.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! hahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

...hahahahahahahahaha!
:D

[Fleanix]

If marriage really means nothing to you - as you state - then you should have zero problem with my fight for the institution of marriage. If you really - as you say - don't care about marriage as it's come to be known then why are you so adamant that it not be preserved? It must have some kind of importance to you if you're so upset by my viewpoint.

:D

you're right, i was just ranting without thinking, i do that from time to time.

but there can be successful open marriages, it obviously won't work for most of the population, but you don't think any open relationships can survive?

[Schteve]

If marriage really means nothing to you - as you state - then you should have zero problem with my fight for the institution of marriage. If you really - as you say - don't care about marriage as it's come to be known then why are you so adamant that it not be preserved? It must have some kind of importance to you if you're so upset by my viewpoint.Or it could be that some people just don't like listening to utter nonsense. But in either case, why are you trying to prove something about marriage to people who don't find importance in it?

[gamertech]

...but there can be successful open marriages, it obviously won't work for most of the population, but you don't think any open relationships can survive?No, I think it [i]can[i] work but I find cases like these turn out better when you err on the side of caution. The overwhelming majority of people would agree that odds are very much against success in that situation.

But in either case, why are you trying to prove something about marriage to people who don't find importance in it?Only because I see it being tainted. I realize I won't change anybody's mind here but I had for fight for what I believe. It's all I have.


So now this is Corpus Vile?
And to all the senders of hate mail I'm receiving: You can't tell me that Corpus Vile isn't flooded with threads where people are taking jabs at each other. Just because it's all in good fun doesn't make that statement less valid. So, I'm answering this one final time: No, I'm not saying Corpus Vile is full of savages, gay bashers, or whatever crap you're reading into my reference. Got it? Good. So get off my ass. (I wish I'd saved my one usage of the finger smilie for this occasion. Oh well, I finally got to use it so I'm content. Now if I could only find a place to use the puke icon my life would be complete.)

There are you happy? :shake:

[Schteve]

The overwhelming majority of people would agree that odds are very much against success in that situation.The overwhelming majority if people in this thread don't.



I realize I won't change anybody's mind here but I had for fight for what I believe. It's all I have.Then don't question why other people are doing the same.

[Px2]

People are sending you hate mail? LOLLERSKATES. Why don't YOU get off MY ass, and refrain from making any more personal attacks (or "jabs") on my credibility?

The fact remains that people HAVE pulled off open relationships, people ARE pulling them off right now, and they're probably going to pull off even MORE of them in the future. I've seen open relationships fall apart, and normally it's for the same reasons as any other relationship. In the cases where jealousy and such things did play a key role in the couple's downfall, they were usually not mature enough to even be dating in the first place.

Look, there is no physical commitment universally inherent in marriage, that's merely your interpretation of it. For you to say that two consenting adults who have an open relationship in the context of their marriage are lacking in integrity or compassion is ignorant. Maybe even a bit vomit-inducing.
:puke2:

[gamertech]

The overwhelming majority if people in this thread don't.I think that's quite obvious.
Then don't question why other people are doing the same.I never questioned anyone's fighting for what they believe. In fact, I expected that. I think everyone should fight for their beliefs. We aren't always going to agree on everything but we should consider both sides by letting them both be heard. I know I'm not always right. All I can guarantee from my posting is that I'm sincere and honest. You won't have to wonder where I stand. I don't hold grudges around here so just because I strongly disagree with some things doesn't mean I have personal feelings against anyone here.
People are sending you hate mail? LOLLERSKATES. Why don't YOU get off MY ass, and refrain from making any more personal attacks (or "jabs") on my credibility?Uh, yeah. People getting mad because they think I'm "downing" Corpus Vile isn't the same as me fighting for marriage. Not the same at all.
Maybe even a bit vomit-inducing.

:puke2:Thanks; A little puking goes a long way. My life is now complete :D

[Schteve]

I never questioned anyone's fighting for what they believe. In fact, I expected that. I think everyone should fight for their beliefs.orly?
If you really - as you say - don't care about marriage as it's come to be known then why are you so adamant that it not be preserved?

[Px2]

I don't hold grudges around here so just because I strongly disagree with some things doesn't mean I have personal feelings against anyone here.
the hippos abound
"That speaks volumes of you. I'll have to keep in mind never to believe any promises you make; you don't even value the ultimate promise :shake:"
"I'm suddenly very disappointed in the members here at GW. Hearing you say that is a sure sign that you live a shallow, meaningless life."
"Your personal promises apparently have no substance to them. I'm glad you've made your nature known to me. It's nice to know you're essentially not trustworthy."
Uh, yeah. People getting mad because they think I'm "downing" Corpus Vile isn't the same as me fighting for marriage. Not the same at all.
then take up thy sword, brave warrior, and fight on! i shall appeal to the hawk for your great success!

[gamertech]

orly?I stand by my statement. I did question why he has his position but I have no problem with his right to disagree with me or his voicing of his opinion. I just disagree with his opinion on this subject.

the hippos abound


then take up thy sword, brave warrior, and fight on! i shall appeal to the hawk for your great success!You so funny.

[Px2]

Sir, I believe you dropped this ball? Would you like it back?

[gamertech]

Sir, I believe you dropped this ball? Would you like it back?I'm good. You can hold it for awhile if you want.

[dark knight]

@Fleanix there are places where you can get marrie if your gay. at least I kno there are in Canada, I think even on of the people in cabinet has 'come out' and admitted to being gay. I know Ontaio has Validated Gay marages. and anywhere in ontario they could live as comon law and basicly get the same rights as a married couple I believe.

Marrage mean something different to each person, and as each person has their own set of morals their integrity is based on if they stick to those morals.

this day and age people question almost evertthing esspecially anything tied to tradition. And the main issues that I've seen brought up by those whom oppose our choice seem to suspect that somewhere down the line my hubby by just being with or careing for one other person than me will eventually put that person's wants/needs above mine and my son's need. Not only do I see this as being not the case, it can happen with any activity outside of the marrage. Like being with friends, substance abuse, or the most common house breaker; work.

He knows that me and Val are his top priority. Not only that he isn't going to just jump into things without giveing me the time I need to see how I feel on the matter, and should I feel like I rather him stop, he will.

Though I will say that he matter is deeper hen the english language or my mastery of it can really manage, and is far more complex then it may seem, at least I can't seem to manage to explain it so people here understand it.

[Px2]

Gay marriage is legal in Canada, Massachusetts, Belgium, Spain, The Netherlands, and South Africa. But I don't think anybody really feels like moving just so they can get married.

You're a wonderful woman, and I'm glad you have that kind of trust within your relationship. You seem to be dealing very well with what must be a difficult situation.

[Schteve]

Gay marriage is legal in Canada, Massachusetts, Belgium, Spain, The Netherlands, and South Africa. But I don't think anybody really feels like moving just so they can get married.Hmm, come to think of it, yeah that sure isn't very many places. And moving to another country (aside from maybe like Canada) would be out of the question for most. Massachusetts or bust, anyone?

[Fleanix]

I've thought about moving to canada, it seems like an interesting place. okay you convinced me :p

[Crazy Jamie]

Gay marriage is legal in Canada, Massachusetts, Belgium, Spain, The Netherlands, and South AfricaAnd, as of fairly recently, the UK as well. I should know, I went to one.

[Schteve]

Are you calling Wikipedia a liar, Jamie?!

[dark knight]

DKX here... caution: purposefully and inadvertantly typed poorly for your reading pleasure. ow back to your regularly schedualed ranting and raving like a madman :rant:

JAMIE LIES!!! :omg:

gay marriages... what do I think...well love-em or hate-em for a gay couple it's either move or come out of the closet.. for those that like to hide... and please.. if this makes no sense.. evn thought it isn't actually, for me it's like my 42th hour awake and I'm starting to loose my mind :duh:

what I mean is that most the ay couples I know don' feel hey need "marriage" which was a catholic invention in the first place, to be together... honostly I'm under like mind.. and not just because I really despise the catholic religion.. I despise most religion.. only those few that don't attack everyone else.. ike Druidism and Wiccan. I don't honostly feel I need to be married to sho that I love somone.. the only reason dark knight and myself did get maried was for my immigration to canada, it would be cheaper and quicker if we were married also cheaper is always a-ok in y book, I'm not a cheapo but who can honostly say that when it's somthing like that.. cheaper isn\ always etter... oh there as one other good reason for the edding.. even though we could have one regardless, anniversarys and especially the honeymoon.. that as so nice.. heheh... enough reminencing... yeah.. I don't think marriage is needed.. period.. I think the catholic eligion can take their marriage bull and shove it up where the sun don't shine...I just kinda wish this was Corpus Vile now <.< 'd lke to hav used naughty language there...but I hate censoring I need a hug now... fleenix wanna hugs me's?

[Pakkun]

im with gamertech on this one. all you p o o f s wanna do is f*ck everyone without any commitment.

marriage is so watered down these days that this is what you get.

'screw who you want, as long as your happy.'

why get married if u gonna be that selfish? you'll never have a properly successful marriage if that's your attitude.

and i don't care if you 'see it differently' because if you do then it's wrong.


And you're basing that off of some preconcieved stereotype right?

You obviously haven't seen the celebacy thread in this forum, it might enlighten you a little.

[Fleanix]

i'd love to hug you dkx *hugs*

just ignore jay-mak guys, he's obviously a lot more intelligent than us, what with the "and i don't care if you 'see it differently' because if you do then it's wrong" and what not. that's just the funniest thing I've heard in some time.

dkx, you're going to get SO bashed for promoting wicca haha, even though it's an okay religion. religion is the opiate of the masses, and that's okay, because there's nothing wrong with people having something to fall back on that is comforting in troubling times. when it's not okay is when they come in and force their views on everyone else and state them as fact and attempt to stop people who think differently from pursueing normal happy lives.

[dark knight]

DKX here.. *hugs back*

actually I was not promoting Wicca, even if I as I don't care who bashes me online.. people who do that sorta stuff need to get a life.. seriously.. it's text.. actually I was promoting druidism since i's my religion and lifestyle. :p not that I have any problems with Wicca. also just for those who might take offense to me saying that marriage is pointless, I hould rephrase that, I don't think marriage is neccesary for people to love eachother and be together. and I don' hink it's just for he legal benefits either. I beleive marriage is a good way to show others one's intentions to be with their significant other for the long run.

[Schteve]

dkx, you're going to get SO bashed for promoting wicca:tease: Not in this forum without repercussions for the other party.

[Px2]

people who do that sorta stuff need to get a life.. seriously.. it's text..
But the internets is serious business!

I just wish I could get married without leaving Oregon because I love everything about it here. But who knows? By the time I find an emotionally-together guy I'm compatible with, who I want to give the rest of my life to...marriage here could be entirely possible, then.

[Magus]

I haven't posted here in a while.

I do see people opening up more to homosexuality around the country. Sure, it may seem to the common a major conflict, especially here in the south where I live, but government isn't as strict, in my opinion, as they once were. The government knows they need to change if they plan to keep up with the changing people.

What bugs me is that people around here are very ignorant and misunderstanding when it comes to these matters. I don't see a problem with people having their preference. My once-best-friend was gay and I had no problem as long as he tried not to do anything with me, as I had stated to him that I was hetero.

What I think any person, man or woman should do, is just come out with their homosexuality, and not care what anyone thinks of them. I think if everyone that is afraid of coming out actually would come out, the nation would change. It would be forced to change. I know there are many people now that are very open with their homosexuality, and there are many more that are not. Some people do admit to it, but don't really "live" it. In my opinion, it would definitely cause a change if everyone "lived" their true feelings.

[Fleanix]

that would be nice, but it's not always easy to do. some people can be cast out of their families for admitting they're gay, and it's illegal in some parts of the world. i wish the world was more understanding haha.

[Px2]

I recommend Jamaica as THE place to publicly announce your homosexuality.

[Surfr]

Some people do admit to it, but don't really "live" it. In my opinion, it would definitely cause a change if everyone "lived" their true feelings.

I'm confused by this statement. I don't think there is such as a thing as "a gay life." There is no specific style of life required to be gay. I think the problem is that everyone is trying to invoke this great change, that all the LGTB will come out, the world will be forced to change and conform to the gay community and their style of life. No, I do not believe that is how it will work. What people need to do, is realize the complete opposite, that being LGBT is not that different from being straight. The whole point is that LGTB do not want to stand out, they just want to blend in with society and be accepted (ironically though, being "noticed" is the first step in this process). The great "change" that needs to occure is actually quite small.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense... it's kind of a scattered thought.