WWE10/18Split

[Coleman]

Use this thread to discuss WWE Raw, Smackdown!, ECW on Sci-Fi, Pay-Per-Views, or anything else relating to the number one company in sports-entertainment!

[A Lucid Mind]

TNA wouldn't want or need Batista.

Rumor is that Bourne will be switched to RAW soon. Hopefully this is not true. There is no sense in making stars on ECW and then moving them to other brands. You need to make stars and keep them where they started so the ratings go up.

I read the spoilers didnt watch ECW last week but it said Ortiz came out with Evan in a match against Miz where Morrison was in Miz's corner now this makesense because a while back they did team up on ECW but since then it would of made more sense for Rey to be in Evan's corner on ECW.

Atleast...let MVP wrestle on ECW.

And what the hell is up with this Movers gimmick with The Backwoods Boys? Its pointless if they dont show WHERE they are taking the people. I think WWE will wait a few weeks and then annouce those as the newest fired. What a horrible way to go out.

[Dean]

Rumor is that Bourne will be switched to RAW soon. Hopefully this is not true. There is no sense in making stars on ECW and then moving them to other brands. You need to make stars and keep them where they started so the ratings go up.

Tell that to Dusty Rhodes and others who have gone on record saying they want ECW to basically be a televised "farm community" where some of the wrestlers with the biggest potential can get some television experience before going onto one of the main two brands.

If they really wanted ECW's ratings to go up, I think they'd promote it better and treat it more like an actual brand, instead of having its world title essentially being at or below the levels of the US and IC titles...

[Donpaulo Inc.]

ECW has been a farm for ages, it isnt going to stop, I actually would find it refreshing for them to admit it.

[A Lucid Mind]

ECW has been a farm for ages, it isnt going to stop, I actually would find it refreshing for them to admit it.
ECW is not a farm. FCW is a farm. I wouldnt refer to Velocity or Heat as a farm either. Because in those cases it was usually the most talented WWE wrestlers getting in the ring with the most talented up and comers that already had a spot waiting for them on the roster.

ECW is suppose to be a 3rd Brand on the same level as Raw and Smackdown. If it was a farm it would be filled with total nobodys and would have no matches on the PPV. ECW was meant to be The Rebel Brand. Its where Orton went to truely kill The Legend of Kurt Angle. Its where Big Show went to become a monster heel.

WWE just lost sight of what they were doing with ECW.

ECW should be the home of the younger exciting guys and a main eventer should pop in everynow and then and give the nod to somenoe but that younger guy doesnt have move to Raw or Smackdown.

[Dean]

ECW lost its image when Paul Heyman was removed as booker and they started burying Punk after he had a win streak...

It has yet to recover.

Split~! (http://forums.gamewinners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572064)

[Donpaulo Inc.]

The point is that just like Bourne people go to ECW to either start out or to be re-built up so that they can be sent back to one of the bigger shows with some momentum, its been happening ages. Lashley was moved and built up as a champion then once he had a good following and momentum moved to Raw, Snitsky, Punk and Kane were all sent to ECW then as soon as they have some momentum go to the bigger stage, this is now happening with Bourne and Hardy and I hope they will with Miz and Morrisson.

[A Lucid Mind]

The point is that just like Bourne people go to ECW to either start out or to be re-built up so that they can be sent back to one of the bigger shows with some momentum, its been happening ages. Lashley was moved and built up as a champion then once he had a good following and momentum moved to Raw, Snitsky, Punk and Kane were all sent to ECW then as soon as they have some momentum go to the bigger stage, this is now happening with Bourne and Hardy and I hope they will with Miz and Morrisson.

Lashley became famous/known/popular on Smackdown thanks to Finlay.

Snitsky had no home and no momentum he was suppose to be an unbeatable force and they screwd him over.

Punk actually wrestled on ECW a good bit and earned his spot on RAW where as Bourne has only been wrestling a few weeks and has caught a lucky break by teaming with Rey.

Kane much like Snitsky was suppose to go to ECW to become more hardcore and more evil again his move back to Raw seemed too early for me.

Miz and Morrison is the only two people from the ECW brand that should be ready to move brands but apparently the WWE doesnt like the way they do their charcter. Besides Miz and Morrison is probably more known by the common fan for their work on Smackdown.

Some fans dont even watch ECW they dont know who any of the wrestlers are and they dont care to know. The second you move an up and commer to another brand people lose interest in ECW. They might be new fans who only watch ECW for Bourne...you move him to RAW what happens? They stop watching ECW.

Over in a SVR chat about which Diva's should be in the game should it be based on talent or popularity someone mentioned Tiffany...half the members didnt even know who she was...apparently the causal fan doesnt even visit the WWE website. They thought she was a totally new person when she showed up with Teddy on Raw and they have no clue what so ever who she was or what her purpose was.

I never understood that...I can understand if you live somewhere where you are unable to pick up Smackdown but I am thinking if you get USA you get Sci Fi...and of course they is always the internet. So, I dont understand how someone can call themself a die hard WWE fan but only watch RAW or Smackdown because what happens is they end up being clueless to other people on the roster and then they complain and are confused when someone gets a push on RAW who they dont know.

Bourne moving to RAW is a good thing for Bourne sure...but a bad thing for ECW. ECW is its on brand it should have its own stars.

[V. Mizrahi]

I never liked Snitsky. I never got to experience the origional Monster Kane, I didn't start watching until shortly before Wrestlemania X8. But I think that if they were trying to make Kane back into a monster then they definitely moved him to RAW too soon.

BTW, I don't know if I have MyNetwork TV. It is being advertised here that SmackDown! will be moving there but how do I know that I already have it? Internet does not allow me to watch anything online.

[A Lucid Mind]

I never liked Snitsky. I never got to experience the origional Monster Kane, I didn't start watching until shortly before Wrestlemania X8. But I think that if they were trying to make Kane back into a monster then they definitely moved him to RAW too soon.

BTW, I don't know if I have MyNetwork TV. It is being advertised here that SmackDown! will be moving there but how do I know that I already have it? Internet does not allow me to watch anything online.
They are running commericals on both CW and MyNetwork. You live in South Carolina seems like you should be getting it. MyTv in some places took over for UPN in some places took over for the WB. Apparently, some places only get CW some places only get MyTV, some get both...some get neither.

As Ive mentioned before if you watch your regular non cable set up then theres a good chance you will catch a channel airing that may be out of the next state. Its all about reception in that case.

MyNetworkTv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MyNetworkTV_affiliates) Channel List. See if yours is listed if its not...then please explain what you mean by "Internet does not allow me to watch anything online." because I might be able to help.

[V. Mizrahi]

My town is listed under affiliates. So I'm assuming I will definitely have it.

Sometimes the video will never load or take an extremely long time to load a 25 second video from anywhere (Google Video, YouTube, etc). But when I play it (if it gets that far) it will constantly lag and randomly stop or jump ahead or backwards.

[Nicholas]

Well that sucks. The only places that have MyNetworkTV in Oregon are Portland, Eugene, and Medford...though GP is right next door to Medford, I have no cable sadly, only sattellite. I might have to look around though. Is Smackdown still airing the same day and time as before when on CW?

[A Lucid Mind]

Thats what I thought you meant V....um Nicholas, considering you have a sat you should be able to find it with some digging but yeah Fridays at 8 but I believe in still airs on thursdays in Canada and maybe even some places in The States because I have noticed some people have watched it before it airs.

[Dean]

My town is listed under affiliates. So I'm assuming I will definitely have it.

Sometimes the video will never load or take an extremely long time to load a 25 second video from anywhere (Google Video, YouTube, etc). But when I play it (if it gets that far) it will constantly lag and randomly stop or jump ahead or backwards.

Admittedly, I don't know much about PCs. Has this problem always existed, or is it recent? If it's recent, have you tried clearing all your cookies and your cache?

I have to say, I never really thought Snitsky was that special, but he was somewhat over after the "IT WASN'T MY FAULT" stint. Then they turn him into the next Bastion Booger or Duke Droese or that one plumber guy who ate sausages in a pool with Jerry Lawler... TJ Hopper or something... by giving him awful teeth and the gimmick that he doesn't bathe, pretty much. His biggest moment on Raw since moving back is he jobbed to Punk in a brief non-title match when Punk was champion. Whoopee. What a waste... Just can him already.

[V. Mizrahi]

That doesn't work. It isn't recent, it has been like this for a long time.

I think they need to release him. You know you mean nothing to the business when you're a "monster" and yet every match you're in is a squash match to help the other guy get over.

I'm trying to figure out if it is my TV, the station, or if it is SmackDown! itself. I am not hearing any commentary. Just the impact on the mat, the music, and sound effects. Bascially, whatever the cameras surrounding the ring is picking up. I can read what everyone on SmackDown! is saying through the captions but can't hear them.
It is kinda neat though, if I turn my TV up loud enough I can hear what some of the audience members are saying, the bell, the wrestlers themselves (faintly), and Jesse pounding on the mat during Festus' match.

[A Lucid Mind]

Haha..what the hell are you talking about V?

You should have sound now right?

Sometimes WWE likes to go slient and let the wrestling speak for it self or lack there of as in someone getting a beating or something happening that doesnt need any explaining or that they can't explain.

Or it was a bad feed.

Hurricane Helms...how sad...now see this could be a direct hit on Shelton by Helms saying that the price of Gold has just drop because a lot of people assume that Helms would go after the US title since "his" title is gone. But I would rather see Helms do that all night through a cast and just upset the roster.

But really Hurricane Helms...how sad...on his myspace he has asked if he should be Hurricane or Greg or Both...I think an unmasked Hurricane Helms could work as a face and its different than say unmasked Kane because Kane is still the same person. As far as the WWE is concerned The Hurricane and Greg Helms are two different people but now Hurricane Helms is a cool enough name sounds like a boxer...or UFC fighter. Maybe Helms will be more of a striker or something. Helms looks sick these days though.

[V. Mizrahi]

lol, yeah. I found it.
I think it is my reception or something. My room-mate told me that the same thing happened to him on some other channel. If I listen really closely I can hear what the likes of Vickie Guerrero and Big Show are saying, but it is all very tunneled. Just noticed something. All of the superstar's entrance music are instrumentals lol. I can't hear the lyrics. So now I can see why they changed Jeff Hardy's music to this one, the beat is a faster pace. They should just give him the instrumental version.

And....wow....Tell me why it is Hurricane Helms? I hope his comeback and everything will make up for being called "Hurricane Helms" now.

I like Kendricks white jacket better than the black one he has on tonight. The white one just looks better.

I'm not used to "Hurricane Helms", the name will grow on me. I'm still not used to be calling Ron "The Truth" Killings as "R-Truth".

[A Lucid Mind]

You know what I wrote a long reply and then realized no one wants to read that.

Basically, Sugar Shane Helms in WCW became Gregory Helms in WWE during The Invasion. Austin makes fun of The Green Lantern tattoo. Time goes by. Hurricane Helms is born but eventually becomes just The Hurricane (in some circles just Hurricane). Stuff happens. Goes to Smackdown as a Heel with out the mask as Gregory Helms.

Hurricane Helms for the most part is just a face verison of Gregory Helms.

Another promo is suppose to run during The Tag Match later...

[V. Mizrahi]

I wonder where the Kozlov thing is going to go? He seems to be targetting Jeff Hardy.

I'm rather surprised no one has said that Greg Helms and The Hurricane aren't two different people and yet they do when it comes to Kane and The Undertaker.

Is there any point to showing Big Show beating up The Undertaker at Unforgiven between every match?
I laughed a little when the promo comes on. Even though I can barely hear anyone, I apparently know when Vickie's ugly mug and annoying voice is on-air. No, wait...I see what brought my attention to the TV when she goes on-air. My screen seems to crack a little every time lol.

Why is it that they are making The Undertaker seem more mortal? Before it was him being everywhere and no where at the same time. Now it is "I just saw him in the hall" or "The Undertaker is here tonight". Apparently he is no longer a demonic entity, just a really sadistic and dark mortal being.

[A Lucid Mind]

I wonder where the Kozlov thing is going to go? He seems to be targetting Jeff Hardy.
Maybe with Jeff's recent problem maybe Kozlov will wrestle HHH and win the title and then Khali will wrestle him and become WWE Champion AGAIN!

Vicki G is just ugly and fat and ugly and annoying.

[V. Mizrahi]

Maybe with Jeff's recent problem maybe Kozlov will wrestle HHH and win the title and then Khali will wrestle him and become WWE Champion AGAIN!

Vicki G is just ugly and fat and ugly and annoying.
Triple H would go over Kozlov, but it would be in a way that is better than it was with Kahli. Kahli doesn't deserve a title and "wrestle" should always be used loosely when saying that is what Kahli will be doing. But I would like Kozlov vs Kahli. Maybe they could have Kozlov come out demanding competition and claiming that Jeff Hardy wouldn't be a good challenge, opening an open-challenge. Then have Kahli accept it.
I want to see Kozlov vs Kahli.

My TV must be straining to support all three of those factors. At first I disliked her for her being hired because Eddie Guerrero passed. Then hated for her voice. Then that grew into getting aneurisms every time I see her face.
I say they should have gotten an unknown woman who looks better, sounds better, and is actually good at the job. Weren't people cheering Edge for doing that stuff to Vickie? I think he would have gotten bigger heat if she looked like Maryse.

[A Lucid Mind]

Triple H would go over Kozlov, but it would be in a way that is better than it was with Kahli. Kahli doesn't deserve a title and "wrestle" should always be used loosely when saying that is what Kahli will be doing. But I would like Kozlov vs Kahli. Maybe they could have Kozlov come out demanding competition and claiming that Jeff Hardy wouldn't be a good challenge, opening an open-challenge. Then have Kahli accept it.
I want to see Kozlov vs Kahli.

My TV must be straining to support all three of those factors. At first I disliked her for her being hired because Eddie Guerrero passed. Then hated for her voice. Then that grew into getting aneurisms every time I see her face.
I say they should have gotten an unknown woman who looks better, sounds better, and is actually good at the job. Weren't people cheering Edge for doing that stuff to Vickie? I think he would have gotten bigger heat if she looked like Maryse.
Haha aww beautiful sexy Maryse...oh and Eve earlier tonight with those legs...*sigh*

Even though Smackdown's Ratings are suppose to be just as high as Raw's a lot of people only consider HHH and Jeff Hardy as the only good active wrestlers on the brand when you compare that to the star studded roster of RAW its sad in general.

MVP should drop the entrance ...he will become more popular...lol because that bounce house intro is just silly and then he does fire?...WHY?

[V. Mizrahi]

Haha aww beautiful sexy Maryse...oh and Eve earlier tonight with those legs...*sigh*

Even though Smackdown's Ratings are suppose to be just as high as Raw's a lot of people only consider HHH and Jeff Hardy as the only good active wrestlers on the brand when you compare that to the star studded roster of RAW its sad in general.

MVP should drop the entrance ...he will become more popular...lol because that bounce house intro is just silly and then he does fire?...WHY?
lol, Maryse is better than Eve.

I don't. I actually prefer SmackDown! to RAW. But I watch RAW because I find it a little interesting. Its mostly full of people I don't care about. The list of the few that I do care about is small.

BTW, why doesn't ECW just become like its own thing? Have the young talents take it over, put a few big ones in there (like Edge and Orton, no hacks like Cody and Dibiase Jr). After a year or two of building everyone up, have them invade SmackDown! and RAW as an unstoppable force. Get it so that RAW and SmackDown must join to take on the younger talent and have it all end in a stalemate. Treat ECW like its on its own, merely in affiliation with WWE. Shouldn't that get ECW back on track?
I think that if they were going to end the brand split that this would also be a good way to do it.

Maybe MVP is trying to appeal to his inner-child.....that is also a pyromaniac lol

[Dean]

Hurricane Helms was once pretty over. He started off on Raw and had a relatively successful career. He was put in programs with guys like The Rock and Steve Austin, though never put over legitimately or anything like that. He'd usually try to Chokeslam people to demonstrate his "super strength" and fail miserably. He was put in a lot of matches against competitors he had no business being in the ring with at the time (guys like the aforementioned as well as Big Show) and would get out of the match via DQ or something and look like a putz. It was pretty comedic for a while. Eventually he was downgraded to a low card wrestler and spent a lot of time on shows like Jakked and Metal. Then I remember Rosey, following his 3 Minute Warning stint, I believe, became the Super Hero In Training (S.H.I... you can figure it out) to Hurricane. Hurricane was in a feud with... I don't remember who, and Rosey came out to save him and had on a new superhero attire and stuff. Of course, the storyline took so long to progress because WWE doesn't spend a lot of time on low card stuff like they used to in the Attitude Era, that literally months and months went by, and I don't think anybody gave a sh*t (I love puns) anymore. So then eventually I believe Hurricane turned on Rosey or Rosey turned on Hurricane, one or the other, and like AD said, Helms popped up on SD! and became a cocky heel, sort of generic with his sunglass titantron and uh... won the Cruiser Title in a gauntlet or something, I don't remember. And now he's been out for a year, which is the perfect time to bring him back under a different gimmick. I actually like this move, as Greg Helms was pretty generic to me. He didn't have the music or the look or anything to really get over. They're doing basically the same thing with The Brian Kendrick anyway, so why not give Helms this comedy face push? Maybe even put him in a feud with Kendrick and bring back Rosey for a laugh... Okay, maybe not.

[V. Mizrahi]

I remember that storyline. I didn't really care much about it. Helms stopped being The Hurricane and turned on Rosey. Then moved to SmackDown!. I think it is interesting how he held the Cruiserweight Title for a year and then becomes injured and was out for a year.
I don't know anything about the man's career myself, but I already could tell he was talented. So I hope they do good things with him.
Isn't Rosey Umaga now? Or is that the other guy that was in 3-Minute Warning *forgets his name*? Whatever happened to Rico, BTW?

[Dean]

Well, just for some more info, Helms started out in the North Carolina independents and wrestled in OMEGA, the same organization the Hardy Boys owned and featured a lot of talented wrestlers like Christian York, Steve Corino, Joe Legend (I believe), Joey Abs, Shannon Moore, etc. So Evan Karagias, who was already working in WCW since around 1998 in a developmental deal and made sporadic appearances on Saturday Night was thrown into this stable with Helms and Moore called 3 Count, which was a parody of the Boy Bands that really hit their popularity in 1999/2000, like Backstreet Boys, N Sync, O-Town, etc. So they had two songs, "Can't get you out of my heart" and their other theme song, which basically consisted of "Get up on your feet. We can dance together. Sing along with three count. We'll party on forever. We like the Backstreet Boys, N Sync too. Britney Spears is kinda cute. We watch TRL on MTV. Everybody 3 Count, one two three... ONE... TWO... THREEEEE!"

Ahem... anyway, catchy stuff, really. They had these green dancing circles and did these songs and got booed for lip synching. They were all phenomenal wrestlers, though. Then they had Tank Abbott come out and start dancing with them, and if you know anything about Tank Abbott, he's a very dangerous, big heavyweight of a UFC fighter, was just a lethal guy around this time, so seeing him dance and sing with 3 Count was f*cking hilarious. Anyway, they eventually had Evan Karagias kicked out of the group for being a drama queen, and turned Moore and Helms face and kept them as a team. Karagias teamed with Jamie Knoble (he had a K in his name at the time), who was formerly Jamie-San with the Jung Dragons (with Yang aka Akio aka Jimmy Wang Yang, and Kaz Hayashi of PWG fame) and did a three-way tag team feud around the time the Hardy Boys/Dudley Boys/E&C feud was happening in WWF. They never did TLC matches, but they did a great ladder match and had a lot of fantastic high flying matches. They threw a lot of other lightweight tag teams in the mix like Kid Romeo and Elix Skipper, Kidman and Rey Mysterio Jr., AJ Styles and Air Paris (Air Raid), and others, and started a new division. Then WCW went under because Fusient wouldn't buy it after Brad Siegel (executive at TBS or Time Warner) said he wouldn't let them air wrestling on the Time Warner owned networks.

So uh, essentially Shannon Moore faded into obscurity for a while. Helms went to WWE and lost the Cruiserweight Title to Kidman in a "WCW" match on Raw. That's about it... yeah. Kind of a longwinded summary of his career, but Helms first got noticed by doing a flying splash off an 18 wheeler semi through a table in OMEGA, I believe. Bischoff saw it and hired him. So Helms has always been known for being a daredevil and having some great wrestling talent to back it up. He's innovated or borrowed moves from Japan that weren't really done before in the United States, like the Vertebreaker, Nightmare on Helms Street, X-Plex, and others. When he was pushed as a singles wrestler in WCW as "Sugar" Shane Helms, he had a great feud with Chavo Guerrero Jr., and they put on a lot of entertaining matches. Helms would come out dancing with the Nitro Girls and stuff, it was really cool... He had his own hip hop theme and could've been a big star, but he wound up being pushed as a comedy character in WWE, which I'm cool with. I understand that at least he was being used. He probably wouldn't have gotten over with the WWE crowd the same way as he did in WCW, as it was based on athleticism and the quality of matches in WCW, whereas in WWF at the time and currently, they were pushing the personalities and the charisma more.

[A Lucid Mind]

Isn't Rosey Umaga now? Or is that the other guy that was in 3-Minute Warning *forgets his name*? Whatever happened to Rico, BTW?

Rosey went to Japan came back to america went on a reality tv show to lose weight was suppose to get a another try out with the WWE I believe he did under his real name but nothing came of it...they (Umaga and Rosey) are cousins but they look very different from each other. Umaga was Jamal. Jamal was fired from the WWE and was suppose to come back and rejoin Rosey who had just been turned on Helms. They did a dark match reunion of sorts tag team style and I believe they won but something happen...Rosey was fired later that week for being too fat and magically he became Umaga over night.

Rico retired in 2005 and went back to being a policeman.

Observer is reporting that two Raw superstars are currently on the proverbial "chopping block" and may be in danger of being released.

Paul London, who hasn't been seen on TV in quite some time and isn't being used much on house shows, is said to be close to termination. He doesn't have any allies on the creative team which is why there has been no focus on repackaging him like they did with Kendrick.

Chuck Palumbo, who has yet to make his Raw debut since being drafted from Smackdown, is also very close to being released. It's said that Vince used to be high on his biker gimmick but grew tired of it rather quickly. In Palumbo's case, he has always had the support of Johnny "Ace" Laurinaitis, who was responsible for bringing him back into the company after his first stint with the company was over.

Two things funny about this.

Lets start with Chuck 1st, Supposely, some sneaky gamer's have reviewd a lot of tape and they believe that Chuck is in the new SVR09 Game. They saw his name and seen some references to him through out the crowd. WWE pretty much has the final say on the Roster and for the MOST part you would think the people that WWE wants in the GAME would be people they are planning on pushing in the near future or in some cases keeping because they have something big planned for that person. Chuck has became a man of a 1001 gimmicks its a shame because Chuck is the ideal look for a WWE Superstar and he has had plenty of gimmicks that should of got him over.

Now London....Poor...London. I dont know how true this is as I read just a few weeks ago that London had got a hair cut so I assumed they saw him at a houseshow and usually when they do the OverSeas Tours usually in the pictures you see the London wrestling because a lot of sources have said that some of the bigger names dont like to wrestle overseas while some like Batista is more popular in other places than here in America.

I usually hate when wrestling sites have these inside sources or they say oh he hasnt be used he is going to be fired soon. Its like its possible that he is hurt or something is wrong or preventing him from wrestling not just he is going to be fired soon. They were right about Mudroch...took a few months before they were right about Domino.

But London should slowly fade away and show up in ROH wrestle some of the new guys and then finally sign with TNA because I always thought that TNA could make Paul London the CM Punk of TNA. I thought they were doing that with KAZ but something went strange there. Plus, London would fit in perfect with the current storyline esp. if Russo or whoever plans on dragging it out a good year or so which they should.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

Helms dropped the Hurricane gimmick after Vince set Kurt on him if Im not mistaken.

Anyway at this rate I think Kozlov may get put into the title match at No Mercy, if its triple threat then Triple H can win (obviously) but can do it by pinning Jeff therefore Kozlov remain undefeated and can concentrate on feuding with Jeff while Triple H is fed further meat.

[Chill Penguin]

Is Helms coming back as The Hurricane, or is he Gregory Helms but his names is now "Hurricane" Helms. I don't see any problem with that.

And, to rehash and put my two-cents in a semi-old argument, ECW hasn't been an equal brand to RAW and SD! since Lashley was drafted, and even before this it wasn't really "equal." Its is a one hour show, its not equivalent to RAW and SD!, only treated as such on TV. Its basically what everyone else said, a televised developmental brand, and the place people go when no one knows what else to do with them(Matt, Henry, Kane before, Shelton...)

[A Lucid Mind]

To me I would think the idea is that he is "Hurricane Helms" the face name of The Hurricane with the attitude of Gregory Helms. He is not wearing his mask and he probably will update his look. On Smackdown, he was knocking on the heels but not just any heels...he was knocking on the US Champ and The Tag Team Champs...so its possible he is a face and will be looking for a championship run but leaving it opening.

Meaning, if you remember back in WCW and early WWF days and I guess they are some in todays wrestling but its not black and white its not you are a face and you are a heel enough said. But there is such a thing as being a tweener. I think for a lot of people early Jericho was never really consider either one. Its different than being a jobber its just you arent really stuck you can make the crowd like you and still beat up faces or you can make the crowd hate you and still get face pop's for doing random stuff.

Okay...that out of the way...I gotta bitch.

WWE.com announced earlier today that The Miz and John Morrison would be facing Cryme Tyme, and have since announced two more matches for tonight's card. Kelly Kelly vs Beth Phoenix and Evan Bourne vs Kane have been officially added to the show. Jason Powell of Prowrestling.net commented on this announcement by asking whether or not these would be the three best matches to advertise coming off a horrible rating Raw drew last week, and I have to say I thought the exact same thing when I read this. If WWE couldn't draw with Jericho vs Punk in a cage and Rey vs Kane, how do they expect to draw with these three matches?

I know...yes...I KNOW...I am not a normal WWE Fan...I understand that but...

Miz and Morrison are fkn Gods on WWE.com they even did A LIVE verison of the show and it still did well usually that would mean death of a segment like that doing it live. The Fans still loved it. If you follow the WWE.com site then you know that CT and M&M has a feud going on but they can't fully do anything because being on two different brands. If given time though this match could be the break out match of the night.

Kelly vs. Phoenix...I hate that I am going to say this but I understand the mentality of a common/causual fan as some people like to call them...and the mentality is...they want to see Beth beat the snot out of Kelly. The bigger stronger woman beating up on the tiny skinnier less talented woman? Yeah...people want to see that TNA has proved it with Awesome Kong and WWE proved it back in the day with Chyna. Also, it does push the storyline with Candice so if you are smart and you like to see Candice be half naked you will watch this just to see Candice some fans are like that.

Bourne vs. Kane....here's the thing...You could say this wont do much of anything because its basically the same match from last week. Just Evan in place of Rey. I agree. I am not saying its going to be different. I will say that Evan seems more exciting than Rey at times and if the match is placed on the card in a better spot then it might be a better match overall. Plus, I also feel that someone should turn on someone if it happens or not I dont care but I am saying the only point I would see in doing this match is if a turn happens...Bourne gets the upset win....or Kane destorys Evan....litterally.

I also agree that if Punk vs. Jericho in a Cage doesnt peak any interest then what can the WWE do? Well...this side of forcing The Rock to wrestle or having Austin to stun Adamle or have whatever to happen you probably wont see any difference ratings wise.

I honestly watch wrestling for the wrestling I dont care who wins or loses I dont care who is over and who isnt I just dont care. To me Punk vs. Jericho both men 100% no restrictions on storyline or crowd response...Jericho and Punk could put a lot of so called GREAT WWE Matches to shame...but the fans dont care about that...they only care if the person is popular or not and if Punk wins with his GTS or Jericho locks Punk in the Walls.

I will be watching RAW tonight because a few weeks ago I WANTED to see Cryme Tyme vs. Miz and Morrison but damn Priceless ruined it!

[A Lucid Mind]

*edit*
Yeah, this was a thread that I merged into a post because no one cared.

[Dean]

- On 12/9, WWE is coming out with the first Kane DVD, a triple disc set titled 'Twisted Disturbed Life of Kane'. The Big Red Machine has been employed by WWE since 1995, making him one of the longest-lasting employees who started as Isaac Yankem DDS and then moved on to take on the role of the fake Diesel before being repackaged into his best gimmick Kane in 1997. It is not known if this will have the usual one hour sit-down interview on the
first disc but with over ten years as Kane there is more than enough material to fill three DVDs worth of footage.
(thanks to Colin Vassallo)

The 9/19 edition of Friday Night Smackdown scored a 2.3 broadcast rating, down for the previous week's 2.5 rating.
source: Nielsen Media Research

I look for this week's Smackdown! to probably be a 2.0 or so, because of the presidential debates. They expect possibly 100 million people to tune into the first debate.

[A Lucid Mind]

Miz and Morrison came out with fire tonight on ECW. Trashing the crowd and Trashing the most popular boy wonder in WWE todate. They are getting booed. They are getting heel heat. Just like WWE wanted. I hope the WWE is happy...because they just killed Miz and Morrison as we know them.

Doesnt really help that Striker chuckles at their comments...too much confliction goes on with in the WWE its nuts. You got the writers and bookers and who ever wanting Miz and Morrison to be More Heel Less Funny but you got Striker laughing at their jokes.

[Dean]

I'm watching the Maryse versus McCool match, by the way. Both are definitely green, but I see a lot of potential here. Besides McCool not really working that stiff and looking kind of awkward at times, I really know what you're saying, AD. I think both are better than the standard WWE diva of the past, and Maryse especially plays her character. She's almost the female RVD in the way she plays to the crowd. When McCool gets going, she can pull off a series of impressive maneuvers. Over time, she'll be less timid about executing those shots. They're not as bad as I've heard from others, but definitely still green, but hey... every wrestler is at one point. The only thing I don't like about McCool is that she's given the belt mainly because of her relationship with Taker. Let's not deny it. She's still got a lot of room to improve, and I hope she continues to. Pretty good match, though, and I agree that both women are attractive. Shame the match wasn't for the belt, because I'd like to see Maryse win the Diva's Championship and have McCool as the woman chasing after the belt. Let Maryse straddle the tweener line for a while and do the RVD thing she has going on, while McCool is the softer spoken, more conservative wrestler, like Jerry Lynn was, and it could be a pretty good feud.

By the way, I'm on AIM if you were wondering. :P

EDIT:

lololol. Mike Knox uses the same generic stock music they gave the Pitbulls on the WWE-produced ECW DVDs.

Poor Chase Stevens... Mike Knox really still comes across as just a generic big man to me. He's not very impressive. He has a pretty generic style and wears very generic ring attire, and I just can't get into him. He has no character, no thought, and is a pretty boring guy. I mean, when Chase Stevens, aka "THE JOBBER IN THIS MATCH" has an attire that is more interesting than yours, you've got a problem...

[A Lucid Mind]

I dont know it almost seems like they want to create a tag team with Swagger and Knox and maybe do the whole legend rookie thing all over again with Dreamer and Stevens. Maybe they were just using Stevens because he wrestled Swagger the week before. But I believe Stevens had a hair cut and a color change in hair. Usually, stuff like that would be the WWE teasing you saying well cut your hair maybe you will sign a contract and then next week they are like hmm...can we change your name? ...week later...hmm how about you change your attire? Okay...you did everything we asked of you but we dont like you we arent offering you a contract.

Maryse vs. Michelle I started watching around the middle of the match because I didnt hear them annouce the match I just heard random women yelling and I figured the match was on. I thought it was good and I liked that Striker and JR are pushing these women as not your typical Diva. You can say thats TNA influnce you could say its a natural progression but whatever you call it The WWE Diva could be taking a new shape with the likes of Michelle McCool.

The Undertaker impression is there with her but I mean atleast she does have skill and its not like Taker is dating that asian chick on ECW who barely shows up anywhere and yet shes supposely the most popular diva on WWE.com.

Tiffany was just creepy tonight.

[Dean]

I dont know it almost seems like they want to create a tag team with Swagger and Knox and maybe do the whole legend rookie thing all over again with Dreamer and Stevens. Maybe they were just using Stevens because he wrestled Swagger the week before. But I believe Stevens had a hair cut and a color change in hair. Usually, stuff like that would be the WWE teasing you saying well cut your hair maybe you will sign a contract and then next week they are like hmm...can we change your name? ...week later...hmm how about you change your attire? Okay...you did everything we asked of you but we dont like you we arent offering you a contract.

So in other words, he'll be Frankie Kazarian'd?

Maryse vs. Michelle I started watching around the middle of the match because I didnt hear them annouce the match I just heard random women yelling and I figured the match was on. I thought it was good and I liked that Striker and JR are pushing these women as not your typical Diva. You can say thats TNA influnce you could say its a natural progression but whatever you call it The WWE Diva could be taking a new shape with the likes of Michelle McCool.

It was TNA influence, I really think. The whole thing sent off a vibe very similar to the earlier Knockouts division about "changing" the way women's wrestling is done and stuff.

The Undertaker impression is there with her but I mean atleast she does have skill and its not like Taker is dating that asian chick on ECW who barely shows up anywhere and yet shes supposely the most popular diva on WWE.com.

Tiffany was just creepy tonight.

I didn't see Terrell, but as far as Taker and McCool, I just think it's kind of lame that the division is so shallow right now. It's basically Michelle, Maryse, and Natalya. There isn't anyone else as far as I remember now that Cherry got axed. Vicki won't wrestle (hopefully). I guess the Bella twins got called up. But come on. Look at Raw. They actually use all their women. I haven't seen Victoria in forever, but it could just be me since I don't actually get CW Network (or MyNetworkTV, before anybody makes a comment about that)

[A Lucid Mind]

I didn't see Terrell, but as far as Taker and McCool, I just think it's kind of lame that the division is so shallow right now. It's basically Michelle, Maryse, and Natalya. There isn't anyone else as far as I remember now that Cherry got axed. Vicki won't wrestle (hopefully). I guess the Bella twins got called up. But come on. Look at Raw. They actually use all their women. I haven't seen Victoria in forever, but it could just be me since I don't actually get CW Network (or MyNetworkTV, before anybody makes a comment about that)
Well, for a while Vickie and Nattie was doing this BFF Gimmick where they walked around in matching outfits and they are usually the go to heel diva team on Smackdown that kind of died down for awhile and for some reasons Victoria started hanging out with Vicky G. that died down and Victoria started this current feud with Brea and her sister.

A few matches past with the twin swap it angers Victoria some say this is her pyscho turn BUT this past week on Smackdown we saw the return of BFF as they challenged Maria and Brea to a match this week.

And yes...you could call BFF a more talented verison of TBP....if you wanted.

As for Chase...dont know just last week he had this blonde under brown hair color and it seemed longer this week it seemed to be brown all over and shorter...*shrugs*

[Dean]

- Batista did request to take some time off shortly after Wrestlemania 24, but was talked out of it due to a lack of depth on the WWE talent roster. Apparently Batista feels he will never return to his status three years ago when he was the hottest star in the company, and his program with Triple H was a box office success. Batista has also talked about trying his luck in Hollywood.



- The official release date for the next WWE movie, "Behind Enemy Lines: Columbia" starring WWE superstar Mr. Kennedy, a straight-to-DVD release, will be January 6, 2009.


(credit: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter)

- The Wrestling Observer Newsletter is reporting that AAA in Mexico proposed a contract to sign Rey Mysterio Jr. away from WWE. Despite AAA's play to land Mysterio, Mysterio is expected to be signing a new three-year deal with WWE.



- Dave Meltzer is also reporting that Edge is expected back within the next several weeks.

Raw on Monday night scored a 3.05 cable rating. More ratings details to come...

Raw rating is back up to 3.05, which has been the standard since Punk lost the title.

[A Lucid Mind]

Which was odd because Raw sucked this week...

I bet fans were tuning in to see Lance Cade in the Main Event.

Of Raw, I seriously only watched the start and Punk's match...thats it. I did the regular look in ever so often listen for it but wasnt really interested at all.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

Woohoo Edge back soon!

[V. Mizrahi]

Woohoo Edge back soon!
Any info on whether he'll be returning as Brood Edge?

[Donpaulo Inc.]

I doubt it, maybe with some new gothic spin but they couldnt just have him as a "Vampire/follower"

[Nicholas]

Is Batista going to earn the "Most Emo" wrestler award this year? It seems like all he cares about is getting in the spotlight and trying to be like HHH. But like I said, he can't kiss Vince's ass daily and politely ask for an instant title reign. He has to earn it. But right at the moment, Batista is just...boring.

[V. Mizrahi]

That was kinda what I meant by "Brood Edge". The only thing I have left to wonder is if he will be continuing his feud with Undertaker or teaming with him.

Batista is just a narcissistic prick who thinks that he should he handed everything. Despite lacking any true talent.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

I have no idea how they will explain Edges return away, all I can think is Big Show beats Undertaker at No Mercy probably with some help and Undertaker brings him back to unleash on Vicki and thus turn face as everyone would love to see her get speered lots and not in the sexual way.

[A Lucid Mind]

I have no idea how they will explain Edges return away, all I can think is Big Show beats Undertaker at No Mercy probably with some help and Undertaker brings him back to unleash on Vicki and thus turn face as everyone would love to see her get speered lots and not in the sexual way.
That would work considering that Edge said he wanted to team up with Undertaker which to me is soo odd when you think about it I mean besides Kane...Undertaker is a not a tag team wrestler. But whatever...having Taker bring Edge back to help him would make sense but I think he if he did that it would abandon The Rated R Superstar so you have to make him a little broodish.

It looks like to me that the debut of Smackdown on MyTv will be big but not live so that holds back. It looks like its going to be a night of champions because we all know the fans love the champions.

You have Jericho vs. HHH vs. Matt Hardy.

You also have Shelton vs. Santino (IC vs. US) *annouced on this weeks smackdown*

I wouldnt be surpised to see Beth vs. Michelle...although chances are they would just make it a Diva free for all.

Tag Team Champs could face each other....

[Donpaulo Inc.]

I think the Rated R Era has to end which is a shame as for me its been the greatest gimmick ever, I just hope they know what they're doing. As for Edge teaming with Taker it would give me a clue that Hawkins and Ryder will remain champions so they can steam through them and take the belts for a stint the way he did with Hogan while fulfilling a dream.

[A Lucid Mind]

I think The Rated R Superstar gimmick is still very hip and very in tune with todays youth and people who grew up in the same era that Edge did.

Its kind of like Austin's gimmick he was other gimmicks before this current but will always be the Austin that we know him as today.

Edge found a gimmick that he could stay in touch with the crowd and stay popular as a face or a heel. He will always be The Rated R Superstar rather he is called that or not. His actions will always speak louder.

[Insane man]

I enjoyed raw this week. Punk v. Rhodes was good as was Cryme Tyme v. Morrison and Miz. I also enjoyed the main event usually I would complain about HBK eating the pin but he is a guy who it doesn't hurt him to eat the pin so it was nice to see Cade get the win for his team. I thought Charlie Haas imitating Mr. perfect was funny. I do question Beth Phoenix losing to kelly kelly though. Santino was hilarious imitating Batista who was also funny when he pulled Santino's mask back and had it snap back in his face.

I hope they don't change Edge's gimmick he was way better as a heel than a face. I am an Edge fan so i like him better as a heel than a face.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

I do to and he will return to heel no doubt but a fresh switch could make things more interesting.

[A Lucid Mind]

So, anyway my point was the change to MyTV is big Edge might show up there or the next PPV.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

lol having discussed a possible repackaged darker Edge on here I went and had a dream with him in where he was wearing a really bad Halloween style devils costume with a shaven head and was playing a prankster, god I hope it wasnt a premanition.

[A Lucid Mind]

lol having discussed a possible repackaged darker Edge on here I went and had a dream with him in where he was wearing a really bad Halloween style devils costume with a shaven head and was playing a prankster, god I hope it wasnt a premanition.
At best...Edge could return as a Druin or atleast some hooded shadowy figure.

[Dean]

- In a dark match before last night's Raw, Dolph Ziggler who was Nicky of the Spirit Squad d. D'Lo Brown.


- Protos of Jakks Classic Deluxe series 5.

http://wrestlingfigs.com/uploads/article/96681_article.jpg


- Happy Birthday to Candice Michelle, she turns 30 years old today.


- Jason Powell is reporting that The Undertaker's knee injuries have been really bad as of late and much to the suprise of many he was recently seen limping very badly backstage.


- Updated Unforgiven DVD art.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/Mets_Suck/UN.jpg

Credit: Gerweck

[A Lucid Mind]

The reason why Dean is posting about Dolph Ziggler incase you dont remmeber a few weeks ago the guy that introduced himself to Cade and Jericho...that was Dolph Ziggler.

[Nicholas]

Dolph Ziggler just annoys me...every single week, "Hi, I'm Dolph Ziggler." *Handshake*

[Donpaulo Inc.]

Is there some sort of pun on his name that Im blind to? Just the way Jillian reacted to his name.

[A Lucid Mind]

Is there some sort of pun on his name that Im blind to? Just the way Jillian reacted to his name.
Its his gimmick to introduce himself. Its just odd to people this random guy showing up backstage introducing himself.

There might be a pun there but I think its mostly because of the way he is introducing himself.

The dark match on RAW before the match he got on the mic and the fans booed the hell out of him for no reason at all. He said his name and then had his match. He won it. After the match I believe he tried again to say his name and then add nice to meet you and that got boo's too.

Crowds dont like people they dont know...even when they do know them they are just too stupid to remember.

[Dean]

- This week's edition of ECW on Sci Fi airing at it's new time of 9pm est did a 1.2 rating. - Gerweck.net

OH NO... HOW... HOW COULD THIS BE? A PRIMETIME WWE SHOW... GETTING... PRACTICALLY THE SAME RATING AS TNA... IN THE SAME TIMESLOT... WHAAAAAAAT?!

[Shane]

To be fair, it IS ECW, not a real brand.

[Dean]

But it has real wrestlers who've really been in WWE for a decade.

You know, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, and hot acts like Miz and Morrison. It got a pretty decent amount of hype and promotion from the other brands, too...

And got a 1.2. Which is essentially what TNA got. And people still bitch about TNA's ratings.

Just sayin'. :P

[A Lucid Mind]

I think ECW Is a real brand. They have a championship. They have very well known wrestlers like Dean mentioned and they have made stars like Bourne, Punk, Morrison, Miz and few others.

The only reason why its not a "real" brand is because WWE Fans refuse to watch it like they do RAW and Smackdown. I dont know why. But they do. Thats why ECW should start doing stuff with some different names so it pisses off the fans who only watch RAW and Smackdown. If those viewers think they are missing something by not watching ECW then maybe they will tune in. Until then its going to be treated like a star studded Velocity.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

I dont know why but I truly feel that you could give ECW a 2 hour slot, everyone off Raw, the belts everything involved but under the ECW banner n it wouldnt ever manage half Raws ratings.

[A Lucid Mind]

I dont know why but I truly feel that you could give ECW a 2 hour slot, everyone off Raw, the belts everything involved but under the ECW banner n it wouldnt ever manage half Raws ratings.
Well, like I said, it has to do with the fans some say it has to do with the actual channel its on or the actual day that its on and stuff like that but really its about the fans.

They are a lot of fans who only knows what goes on Raw or just on Smackdown. They dont really follow the other brand so why would they watch ECW? Even if it has Raw's roster?

I get upset a lot about when a so called fan of wrestling doesnt know an indy wrestler and when that guy debuts they think hes the best damn thing ever...but I have learned to understand that apparently I am in the minority...HOWEVER...I have also noticed some people really didnt know about Evan Bourne UNTIL he was on RAW. He was doing the exact same thing on ECW but because he wasnt on the bigger brand then they just dont care.

If you took RAW off the air and put all their wrestlers on ECW and called it ECW...people would complain that RAW was gone and they would be mad upset and all sorts of nuts and its like...just watch the other channel. I think for some fans honestly its just the NAME that gets people in not the actual wrestlers. Meaning, some people want to watch RAW no matter who the roster is.

[Dean]

One of the main points of posting that is just to demonstrate that as much bashing TNA gets over its ratings, ECW didn't manage to do any better in a primetime slot with more promotion.

Take a look at this:

- Last night's edition of The Ultimate Fighter only did a 0.8 cable rating.

Not exactly on topic, but this is much less than the 1.1 that TNA normally gets or the 1.3 that TNA has gotten in the past...

[A Lucid Mind]

One of the main points of posting that is just to demonstrate that as much bashing TNA gets over its ratings, ECW didn't manage to do any better in a primetime slot with more promotion.

Take a look at this:



Not exactly on topic, but this is much less than the 1.1 that TNA normally gets or the 1.3 that TNA has gotten in the past...
Smackdown on MYTV just ran locally during TNA ;) lol QUIT MENTIONING WWE!! IT WONT GET YOU RATINGS TNA!!! lol (inside joke)

[Donpaulo Inc.]

I get upset a lot about when a so called fan of wrestling doesnt know an indy wrestler and when that guy debuts they think hes the best damn thing ever...but I have learned to understand that apparently I am in the minority...HOWEVER...I have also noticed some people really didnt know about Evan Bourne UNTIL he was on RAW. He was doing the exact same thing on ECW but because he wasnt on the bigger brand then they just dont care.

I feel a need to defend myself and others like me at this point. I watch 7 hours of wrestling a week, 10 if its a PPV week and I enjoy it, I never miss Raw, Smackdown, ECW or iMPACT! even if the weeks before have been awful however I dont have time to chase round every indy website looking for great matches, I have a job, I have a life and I can only dedicate so much to wrestling therfore I dont always know who a new guy is. Matt Sydal for example I was aware of but had never seen him wrestle, I dont feel Im less of a fan as a result of this and yes I do enjoy his work as Evan Bourne. I read websites about wrestlers when I hear their names when I have the time but its valuable.

[A Lucid Mind]

I feel a need to defend myself and others like me at this point. I watch 7 hours of wrestling a week, 10 if its a PPV week and I enjoy it, I never miss Raw, Smackdown, ECW or iMPACT! even if the weeks before have been awful however I dont have time to chase round every indy website looking for great matches, I have a job, I have a life and I can only dedicate so much to wrestling therfore I dont always know who a new guy is. Matt Sydal for example I was aware of but had never seen him wrestle, I dont feel Im less of a fan as a result of this and yes I do enjoy his work as Evan Bourne. I read websites about wrestlers when I hear their names when I have the time but its valuable.
You missed my point theres no need to defend yourself.

I was just saying I have accepted that not everyone watches Indy...but whats weird to me is you have a guy like Evan Bourne who is on ECW doing this high flying act and you got some people jumping on the wagon backing up Bourne thats fun and thats cool and thats AWESOME...but what I noticed is even when he showed up on RAW they were still some WWE Fans who didnt know who he was.

They are a lot of fans out there who think the wrestlers on ECW suck or are untalented or whatever but as soon as they show up on RAW they are all of a sudden a big deal. That was my point.

But as for your comment about how much wrestling you watch. I actually watch less. I havent seen a full Impact in a good while. I havent watched Smackdown since Edge left I only tune in to watch Brian Kendrick lose or to see The Brothers Colon. And I only listen to RAW and look at the screen when Punk is on there.

All my other wrestling knowledge or lack of comes straight from what I read online like their bios and stuff which usually comes with some sort of video showing off their moves.

My favorite wrestler to date is Larry Legend.

[Northern Lights]

Who cares how much wrestling people watch? Anyone can be a wrestling fan.

[A Lucid Mind]

Who cares how much wrestling people watch? Anyone can be a wrestling fan.
Exactly.

I was just saying it was weird to me how they are RAW fans...ECW fans and Smackdown fans some are all three some are just a combnation some are just loyal to one brand. Its very odd to me and I think you (the royal you) are missing out or missing judging some wrestlers just because they arent on RAW.

That was my point and had nothing to do with how much wrestling anyone watches.

Let me say this Donny...

Ortiz has his towel, his hand signs, his catch pharses, hes got fans, hes got backstage segments...but you put him on RAW this week with Borune or alone and he would get zero pop where as in ECW he does pretty good.

[The-Joker]

- This week's edition of ECW on Sci Fi airing at it's new time of 9pm est did a 1.2 rating. - Gerweck.net

OH NO... HOW... HOW COULD THIS BE? A PRIMETIME WWE SHOW... GETTING... PRACTICALLY THE SAME RATING AS TNA... IN THE SAME TIMESLOT... WHAAAAAAAT?!

It's a 1 hour show.

And also it sucks.

So TNA pulls the same ratings as the worst wrestling on TV.

[A Lucid Mind]

Santino is The Champion of Planet Earth!

I laughed.

I swear when Taz said Divas Champion I heard The Jesus Champion! I am all for a Jesus Championship oh the possiblities!!

[Dean]

It's a 1 hour show.

And also it sucks.

So TNA pulls the same ratings as the worst wrestling on TV.

TNA Impact drew a 1.0 rating on Thursday with 1.3 million viewers, which is down from the 1.1 rating the show drew last week. The rating for the final segment with Mick Foley and Kurt Angle drew the show's best rating with a 1.19.


Source: ProWrestling.net

This was up against the Vice Presidential debate for the first hour and a half, which was watched by 70 million people...

But anyway, I don't mean to continue the whole TNA versus WWE ratings debate. I meant that ECW's ratings were about as good as TNA's for the same time slot (though TNA is on twice as long). Whether ECW is "the worst wrestling on TV" as you put it, or if it's good, the point is that WWE has put more promotion behind this than TNA is able to put behind their show.

[the dmg]

This was up against the Vice Presidential debate for the first hour and a half, which was watched by 70 million people...

But anyway, I don't mean to continue the whole TNA versus WWE ratings debate. I meant that ECW's ratings were about as good as TNA's for the same time slot (though TNA is on twice as long). Whether ECW is "the worst wrestling on TV" as you put it, or if it's good, the point is that WWE has put more promotion behind this than TNA is able to put behind their show.

SpikeTV's baby is UFC and The Ultimate Fighter, which gets tons of promotion. I honestly believe that I have seen more commercials for the TNA game than Impact itself. You would think that they would be smart and promote the double whammy of UFC/TNA being back to back.

[Dean]

Unfortunately for the WWE, their very first broadcast on MyNetworkTV only drew a 1.2 rating for the WrestleMania 24 special that aired Thursday night.

WrestleMania 24 special gets the same rating as ECW on Sci-Fi...

According to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, The Undertaker has been spotted noticeably limping in the ring at certain times during WWE's overseas tour last week and one his knees has been bothering him since he made his return in August. He did have arthroscopic surgery during his time off and his knee was in worse shape than the company had thought, which has included the beginning of arthritis.


:(

[Donpaulo Inc.]

So Taker should be finished.

[V. Mizrahi]

I wonder if his feud with Big Show and Vickie will be his last. I don't think I've ever seen Taker do a real world championship (WWE or World Heavyweight) run. The first time I saw Taker hold a world championship was at WrestleMania XXIII, the first time I saw him challenge for the title was back when Lesnar was WWE Champion, a few months before Wrestlemania XIX.

[A Lucid Mind]

Gooooooooooooooooooooldust.

Vote Goldust so the live crowd can chant TNA...lol

This is silly though...I mean okay Santino wants to chase Honky record so its obvious the WWE wants him to win...but look at the other choices...Piper...the guy they pulled last year for revealing he would be apart of the vote before the WWE said...and Goldust...this guy has bounced back and forth between TNA, WCW and WWE. Hasnt he been let go before for no showing and whatever else?

Main Event....Cole welcomes us back...but we didnt go anywhere....

JBL vs. Batista really is a horrible match...they can barely move they are both big and clunky and arent as strong as they think they are and its very its just horrible.

I would like for this match to end with Regal...Orton...JBL...Jericho...Cade...beating down on Batista...and HBK comes out and he gets knocked out....and then Cena comes out and evgeryone goes NUTS and the place just blows UP!!! But...Cena....attacks Batista too!!! lol That would be awesome.

I mean really...with all this Cena hype tonight its like wtf? and Adamle...shows up...just as RAW ends? Worse angle ever.

Orton has a headset on Vince has to be telling him something.

....

Doesnt the WWE Universe realize that all Austin does is ref and enforce? there is no reason to cheer that and it doesnt count as a return either.

[CM Punk]

Heh, it's fairly certain that Austin will be the referee. And for whatever reason, I think that whoever gets chosen to be Santino's opponent at Cyber Sunday will be Charlie Haas impersonating someone, am I the only person who thinks this?

[ChrisKattan2005]

omg Goldust!!!

I hope he wins the vote and the title, I love Goldust. Just don't give him the stuttering gimmick again...

Jeff vs. HHH and HBK vs. Jericho were great, especially HBK vs. Y2J. That ending made me hold my breath haha.

did Kane forget that he's supposed to catch people when they moonsault him? bourne and rey had some nasty falls recently.

[A Lucid Mind]

Heh, it's fairly certain that Austin will be the referee. And for whatever reason, I think that whoever gets chosen to be Santino's opponent at Cyber Sunday will be Charlie Haas impersonating someone, am I the only person who thinks this?

Yeah, Austin does a lot of Ref work esp. around Mania months or of course Cyber Sunday.

Cyber Sunday is known for bringing back legends in some sort of way and its kind of a special night and it gives more varitey to the whole show. But like considering Haas's current role playing I could see like...

Honky wins the vote...Haas comes out dressed as Honky that fan reaction can go either way they will either love it or hate that they dont get to see the real legend...however it is right up WWEs alley to have Haas come out as the faux legend but just before the bell the REAL legend comes out...and attacks Haas or Haas bows out.

I could also see Piper or Honky winning but Goldust music hits and the annoucers react to it like HE DIDNT WIN WHY IS HE COMING OUT...wait...wait...thats GOLDHAAS!!! and its really Haas and then Honky comes out acting as if he really is Goldust and he hits him with the guitar or something...and then Santino gets the roll up.

On a funny note there one of Haas's blog named What and Who's Next wrote about his current gimmick and then said the clue to his next apperance was in the title and since he wrote WHOS NEXT...some people are thinking Goldberg...but it could very well be a Goldust impersonation.

I think they should put the title on the line and have the returning legend to actual win it! lol

[V. Mizrahi]

I don't see the point in bringing Austin in as referee anymore. He is now just another referee, why can't the fans see that? When was the last time he did the stunner on someone?

BTW, The Undertaker's arthritis is in his knees? I suppose it is a little off-topic but, could that be a result from the doing the Tombstone?

Is it me or does the feud between The Undertaker and The Big Show seem very similar to the feud The Undertaker had with The Great Kahli when Kahli debuted a 2.5/3 years ago?
Kahli interrupts Takers match with Henry and KOs Taker (Taker stood no offense), Kahli claims he destroyed The Undertaker, Taker comes back at Judgement Day and is quickly defeated (no need to go farther into the storyline)
Big Show restrains Vickie then interferes with Taker's plans. KOs Taker, Taker comes back at No Mercy and is defeated/KOed
(I didn't see No Mercy, going on what they showed on RAW)

[A Lucid Mind]

Undertaker is really in limbo despite what his fans think. His only worth it feud was with Edge and Edge made that happen not Taker. Honest, besides Edge his feud with Orton and maybe the one with Kennedy was worth it but his feuds with Khali...Big Show...just dont produce.

Taker basically has nothing to do and he doesnt show up enough to get a feud going with someone of importance. HHH seems to be heading into a feud with The Russian and we have already seen Jeff Hardy and Taker feud over respect.

There is no one on the Smackdown roster I could see Taker feuding with but I wouldnt wanna see him on RAW. Maybe when Umaga comes back he will feud with Taker or maybe they will decide to team up Edge and Taker and for me I could see Big Show finding a partner that could level up nicely.

I was actually thinking last night that Kennedy teaming up with Chuck wouldn't be a bad tag team. Knox and Swagger is becoming a nice large tag team I could see Big Show hiring them as guns against Edge and Taker.

[V. Mizrahi]

Yeah, but wasn't 'Taker there a lot when feuding with Mr. Kennedy (and, through technicality, MVP) and Randy Orton? I think WWE assigns him feuds with Big Show and Kahli as fillers since, as you said, he has already feuded with almost everyone.
I vaguely remember the feud with Jeff Hardy. Wasn't the match that finished it a Ladder Match?

The feuds I'm really looking forward to are him vs Umaga or vs Kozlov. Especially Kozlov, I think the WWE could get a pretty good feud and storyline out of 'Taker vs Kozlov.

I think No Mercy should have been Kozlov (The Russian) attacking Triple H and Jeff Hardy rather than having Triple H defeat Jeff, then have a triple-threat at Cyber Sunday.

[A Lucid Mind]

Yeah, the Jeff Hardy match was the ladder thing.

From what I gather from reading and from what I see it appears that Taker will only show up or let his presents known if he gets the main event at the PPV or if hes not that hurt he might show up more actually wrestling but as you saw with Big Show Taker didnt do anything he just stalked Chavo and Vickie thats it.

I think it really does just depend on his health and how much input the WWE wants to apply to the match. I think even the WWE knew Big Show vs. Taker was rushed and pointless.

Taker either needs to feuds with other legends such as HBK or he needs to feud with someone who he can throw around. For me seeing Taker as the underdog doesnt work.

[V. Mizrahi]

I kinda noticed that, too. How 'Taker only makes his presence known under a few conditions. But isn't that a bit egotistical?

Well, I doubt 'Taker/Kozlov will be any good from what I've seen of 'Taker lately. Health-wise that is. I'm looking at this based on if the wrestling is very focused on, since the styles are similar yet different. They could do the feud based on competition and respect (like a better version of the Benoit/Undertaker feud in the SvR 2007 SmackDown! story mode).
Not sure what you mean by input though. You mean emphasis on it, perhaps?

[A Lucid Mind]

I kinda noticed that, too. How 'Taker only makes his presence known under a few conditions. But isn't that a bit egotistical?

Well, I doubt 'Taker/Kozlov will be any good from what I've seen of 'Taker lately. Health-wise that is. I'm looking at this based on if the wrestling is very focused on, since the styles are similar yet different. They could do the feud based on competition and respect (like a better version of the Benoit/Undertaker feud in the SvR 2007 SmackDown! story mode).
Not sure what you mean by input though. You mean emphasis on it, perhaps?
I would say egotistical if I totally hated Taker I dont so I wouldnt say that however supposely HBK is on the same light load and you notice we see HBK a whole hell of a lot more than Taker and HBK puts on better matches.

What I meant by input just you know doesnt seem worthy of a full feud just seems like filler until Edge returns or something bigger comes along.

Of course Big Show vs. Taker considering it contains the biggest star on the brand basically feuding with the GM of the brand it should be the highlight of the PPV but it really wasnt. Smackdown is more focused on HHH ...who doesnt seem to care that guys like Undertaker and Big Show are running around.

This angle with The Bella Twins is really getting annoying. Whats worse is the annoucers acknowledge it but you still have wrestling websites making it sound like the WWE wants us to believe they are actually one person. I dont think so. Ever so often the WWE lets us in on the trick while keeping the overall effect hidden. Maybe some fans dont pick it up.

Hyping John Cena Return is bad for ratings...lol

[The-Joker]

I kinda noticed that, too. How 'Taker only makes his presence known under a few conditions. But isn't that a bit egotistical?

No. Triple H is egotistical.

Undertaker lost clean to Show. Triple H loses clean to no man. Taker is just on a light load. You know. So he doesn't die.

[A Lucid Mind]

No. Triple H is egotistical.

Undertaker lost clean to Show. Triple H loses clean to no man. Taker is just on a light load. You know. So he doesn't die.
Yeah, I am not against the light load let me make that clear as I am probably seen as a Taker Hater...but ya know I just want his feuds to mean something more like with Edge, Kennedy or Orton.

But I can't really think of anyone on the WWE Roster that would be a good fit for Undertaker right now.

I like the tag team of Kenny and Braddock so I hope they kind of make them like an Rated Rko 2 or an Miz and Morrison rip off. Braddock has that look to him that he could be given that street look and brawler style and Kenny matchs him in ring attire and you get some nice tag team moves. Braddock could be the power and Kenny could be the speed.

I didnt watch all of Smackdown tonight I been watching FoodNetwork and TravelNetwork much more intresting. The 8 Man Tag was all that I saw and the end of the main event.

[V. Mizrahi]

I already considered Triple H to be egotistical. Occured to me when the only time someone goes over him is when it doesn't really count (example, championship scramble) or if it is through his opponent cheating.

I'm a major 'Taker fan, so I enjoy watching him in the ring unless he is the underdog. It just doesn't make much sense to have him as the underdog.
The end with the lights going out and everything was kinda corny after the second or third time.

Brie Bella is kinda new to me. This was the first time I actually watched her match. I don't have much of an opinion on her, her style is very generic to me.

[A Lucid Mind]

Haha...like I said I did not watch Smackdown this week so I didnt catch the Kizarny

my name is kizarny
wizelcome tizo tizhe cizarnival
wizhat's tizhe rizeason
my name is kizarny

"my name is kizarny
welcome to the carnival
what's the reason
my name is kizarny"

Sinn from TNA's New Church who has been in OVW and FCW for awhile is finally getting his come ups in the WWE and he will be on Smackdown with good pal Edge.

I seriously love this gimmick!! This is one of those gimmicks that will die real quick and will not get over with the fans in time and the WWE will cut it loose just like Pirate Paul and Kevin Thorn and all the rest. Its a great gimmick and he can back it up you just make sure he stays creepy and keeps his air to him. Dont over do it or expose him. And you know its gimmicks like this that they could of used on ECW to fit in with the whole Sci Fi gimmick but the WWE refused.

Can we bring back The Oddities? A Vampire, A Gypsy and The Ripper? We got a loaded faction here now all we need is some hot gothic chick to wear fishnets and studded belts and....oh...*cries*

[The Kendrick]

Wow....that was probably the single most stupidist thing I've seen in WWE.

But, I love the jackass guys so it all works out.

[A Lucid Mind]

I thought it was funny too.

Obviously, you know Big D was going to come out as a joke on Party Boy...Boogeyman because he eats worms and Jackass guys are known for eating and doing weird "stunts" like that and I feel bad for Beth dropping Knoxville like that the fans got on her for it but thats lol...that doesnt count to me. Not putting down her gender or her strength but she is a girl and Knoxville isnt a pro wrestler so the fact she "botched" a body slam a lack for a better word is not her fault then again alot of botches arent the persons fault whatever.

But you know I figured ECW last week was hyping the return of BoogeyMan I was assuming it would be a Halloween thing but I guess they ruined that by bringing him back tonight. I also hope ECW isnt stupid and this isnt an eye candy thing this is a chance for the WWE to actually be consent with what they do.

Sci Fi is doing their 31 Days of Halloween and LAST week Tiffany and Teddy Long dressed up for it. I would THINK considering last week wasnt halloween that they have Tiffany dress up each week leading up to the Halloween show in sexier outfits or just to keep consent cause if they dont do something halloween-isk this week on ECW I would consider that dropping the ball and not captializing on something that they should.

In the same right we should see Kevin Thorn back although I doubt Thorn and Bourne will be on the same brand. I know its stupid but the WWE thinks the fans arent that bright at times and im sure they figure if two guys have similar names then the fans will get confused...like the Ref Mickey James having to change his name because of course Mickie James. Or like how Joey Matthews had to change his name because of Josh Matthews. Haha, then again some WWE fans insist on spelling it Thorne.

Raw tonight has been pretty good. I liked the heel lumberjacks. That skit with Jackass was funny and probably the best part of Raw tonight to be honest....but Jericho and Punk is starting right now so this could be good. Batista should of atleast put some pants on. Now this is what a call a pointless guest ref...this totally takes away from Punk becuase all eyes are on Batista and Jericho. And we can all guess where this will go. Why wont Batista turn heel already?

Matt Hardy and Rey earlier...I just wanted to say I dont know but Matt Hardy seemed a little off to me...who knows...maybe thats just me.

[Donpaulo Inc.]

That was Reys best ring work in a long time for me, its the first time Ive sat up for a Mysterio match in ages.

The Jackass skit was funny and having missed ECW last week I marked for the Boogeyman lol.

I realised during the lumberjack match that Regals attire looks very similar to a womans swiming costume from a 1950s health movie.

Miz and Morrisons rap really wasnt that bad if Jillian hadnt ruined it. Really enjoyed Kelly Kellys springboard flip clothesline or whatever you call it shes obviously working hard to start pulling moves out like that.

I assume that Miz and Morrison will face Cryme Tyme at Cyber Sunday but long term I want the Priceless Duo to get involved, theres a lot of room for a huge 3 way feud here, 2 teams already have a woman teaming with them and Priceless have a perfect partner to draft in in Natalya so theres a lot of matches there. Then if they want more you have Manu now sure Cenas injured so he wont be teaming with Cryme Tyme but someone like MVP whos needed a face turn for the better part of a year now would fit the bill and as a arrogant over the top partner for MNM how about The Brian Kendrick. Im not saying these guys should all be together every week but it mean the belts can be used and when they arnt others could be used to keep the feud fresh.

The one good thing about Cyber Sunday is that the votes will actually count, when voting was done online WWE can just negate them and decide themselves who wins but when people are spending money on voting it will be independently moderated. They need to put Val in a vote and see if he can win another.

[The-Joker]

Miz and Morrison are way better rappers than Cena, I'll say that much.

And no, WWE can just not count the votes, I bet there's fine print, and I doubt anyone would really count them if there wasn't.

The Jackass segment wasn't bad, but it needed less man-ass.

Also, I think Jericho hurt Punk by not reacting to his music hitting at all. No frustration, no surprise, just nothing. Contrast this with Cactus Jack vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley back in the day. Triple H lost his **** as soon as Mankind said "Cactus Jack is BACK!"

And Cactus wasn't even established in WWE at the time at all.

[storm4]

Also, I think Jericho hurt Punk by not reacting to his music hitting at all. No frustration, no surprise, just nothing. Contrast this with Cactus Jack vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley back in the day. Triple H lost his **** as soon as Mankind said "Cactus Jack is BACK!"

And Cactus wasn't even established in WWE at the time at all.

That's an excellent point. And when you don't put your opponent over, you're ultimately hurting yourself. I think it was Piper's book where he talked about being younger and wrestling an older opponent, and he was bashing his age. The veteran told him that now, if he lost, he got beat by an "old man", and if he won, so what? He just beat an old man. (As a matter of fact, it may have been Foley's book...) Speaking of Hunter's reaction to Cactus, I remember Foley saying that the angle depended on Hunter's reaction; if he didn't give much reaction, the fans would've just seen Foley as a broken-down wrestler in a t-shirt. But like you said, Hunter sold it, and it was one of the best feuds ever. I noticed that Jericho undersold Punk as well, and the fans followed along with virtually no reaction. So ultimately, Jericho hurt himself(so to speak...)

[The-Joker]

The veteran told him that now, if he lost, he got beat by an "old man", and if he won, so what? He just beat an old man. (As a matter of fact, it may have been Foley's book...) Speaking of Hunter's reaction to Cactus, I remember Foley saying that the angle depended on Hunter's reaction;

That was definitely in Foley's book, I don't know about Piper's. Foley said "If you run down your opponent as a piece of crap, and you lose, you lost to a piece of crap. If you won, so what, you beat a piece of crap" or something to that effect.

Triple H, despite his many flaws, his one best quality has been his heel reactions to other wrestlers. He has always made a great coward, but they let him win too much so it took away from him. The point of the coward is that he loses eventually.

[A Lucid Mind]

Rey's work was fine but I dont know Matt Hardy just seemed slow or tired or something to me.

Cyber Sunday is very cheeky at times Kane vs. Rey the choices for their match is all basically the same. No Holds Barred to me is the same thing as a Falls Count Anywhere the only difference is where the pin takes place. The other 2 out of 3 Falls match...wasnt...Rey just in one of these...like a year ago? Maybe with Chavo or something? and wasnt it a PPV match? Or maybe it was Kane or something. Maybe I am just crazy.

Like I said we all knew that the main event would end with either Cade running in (dont think we saw him during the lumberjack match) or Batista was going to get the last word on Jericho. Punk didnt matter. He got off some good moves to show off what he can do here and there but really it could of been anyone from Hornswoggle to Big Daddy V. It didnt matter because Jericho didnt seem to care. Punk was excited. Cole and King pointed out the fact Punk never lost his title blah blah blah but other wise pointless in my book.

You know the rap thing with Morrison and Miz was fine my only problem with that is ...its the same lines from their WWE/Youtube Video. Its the same lines repeated so it doesnt its not as creative as it could be. But yeah this should lead to some sort of tag team match maybe even for the titles to get Miz and Morrison on Raw full time. I think they should do something weird with Cyber Sunday like you pick the 3rd partner for each team or something more original. Chances are if they is a Vote for these guys it will probably like: A) Rap Battle. B) Dance Off. C) Wrestling Match. We seen something like that in the past so its not out of the question.

HHH love him or hate him he can be cocky, he can be snobby, he can be innocent, he can be funny, he can be anything you want him to be and he will snap if the angle causes for it OR like we seen in matches with Benoit,Angle or Jericho we have seen HHH get down and he doesnt just over powers them he works their game he gets down and puts on the submissions he will break you apart and just simply shred you. He can cut promos. He can talk for hours. He is an ideal wrestler from the promtion side and he does have a lot of great contacts backstage.

[The-Joker]

You forgot his relentless need to eat all the talent on the roster and put almost noone over.

He's put what. Randy Orton over. And over the past few years he's only put Cena over. And I bet that won't happen again.

[A Lucid Mind]

Okay, I have a little bit of a random rant/post.

1. Awhile back we heard that Punk was being looked down on because he was stealing moves from Japan or something I believe. and the rumor that Norman Smiley is training wrestlers in FCW to be more Japanese like.

2. Mentioning other wrestlers who arent in the WWE or the history of a wrestler.

1. I dont understand WWE does this sometimes they will banish a wrestler for doing a certain move or saying a certain catch pharse or doing a certain gimmick or having a certain finisher or etc etc but then they turn around a few years later and does the exact same thing like its an original thought. This is very annoying to me.

2a. Now, I personally could careless what anyone says about anyone when it comes to wrestling. If anything I am happy when they acknowledge someone outside of their "universe". Tonight on ECW, Striker is VERY heavyly mentioning Tiger Mask and comparing Evan Bourne and Chavo to taking it to the next level that Tiger Mask had already taken it to. This is fine to me but I feel if you are someone who is against TNA mentioning wrestlers from the WWE then you should have a problem with WWE mentioning Japanese wrestlers...just saying.

2b. I understand that in wrestling once you have moved on from a gimmick you pretty much are no longer referred to nor accepted as that gimmick ever again unless it has to do with your death or some sort of flashback angle. In anyevent Dean showed me a video on youtube the other night of Grisham and Josh Matthews talking about how Kane looked like a previous Denist slash wrestler. Now the comments on this video was insane and see this is where I get upset. A lot of Mainstream fans will say that us Indy fans are the minority yet when a mainstream fan says something dumb or thinks a certain way then all of a sudden they become the minority with in the majority...if thats possible.

So a lot of these comments on this video was "Grisham f**kd up!" or "thats why he sucks as an annoucer" or "no one watches heat therefore no one really will hear this." or "Who?" and the funny one "Grisham will never get a chance to host ECW, Raw or Smackdown at this rate" and the odd one "Snitsky doesnt look like Kane..."

Its just funny and weird on what sides the WWE Universe takes. I guess that makes the rest of TN-Aliens.