Clan always closed

[The Kittle One]

I am posting because when ever I or my friend try to make a sig clan it is always closed. I mean there just can't be an ESM, thats not fair there should be a clan for sig makers not good enough for ESM or that don't want to join Average Signature Makers public group.

[Tommy Boy]

No. That's retarded.

There is already a usergroup. It's no different than C&C.

[The Kittle One]

i joined the usergroup but i quit cause i hate usergroups so do other people probaly that is why there should be a clan.

[Tommy Boy]

If you can give me one good reason how usergroups are different than clans, not regarding profiles either, than I'll put a word in.

[The Kittle One]

usergroups you have to ask to make you have to go to a certain page to apply to join then another page to get to the actual place you post.

[Tommy Boy]

Whatever.

ASM will be moving to C&C around next week. Wait until then.

[shortkut]

are you sure you are not going to the split threads? once a thread reaches a certain number of posts they get split. the old posts get put in a thread that gets closed while the newer ones stay open. i have a suspicion that you are looking at the closed part

[Tommy Boy]

No, he is trying to create his own version of ASM in C&C.

It will be there, don't worry.

[shortkut]

if there is already a clan there, then a duplicate clan will be closed because there is no point in there being two clans for the same thing

[Tommy Boy]

Exactly. He is trying to make an ASM when there already is one.

[Justibackwardsn]

The Kittle One, your clan was closed down because it was an imitation of the ESM.

Why would ASM be moved to C&C? The ESM leaders enjoy the fact that it is in a completely separate part of the site. If it was moved, it could be in danger of being closed because it would be imitating the ESM. There is no need for two clans that have the same purpose.

[Lavitz]

Yeah but the ESM doesn't even do sigs. If you go in and read it people ask for help with a sig and the members will tell them to go somewhere else.

[Lumina]

You know, some people have better things to do then work on other peoples sigs.

I don't see the point for a ASM clan, it's going to be the same thing as the usergroup.

[Klowny]

I don't see why there can be only one clan for signature makers.

Ford and Chevy both make cars. Hunts and Heinz both make catsup.

*leaves to start the substitute C for K Counter-Revolution*

[tworow2]

You know, some people have better things to do then work on other peoples sigs.

Not a group calling themselves "Elite Signature Makers".

If you're going to take pride in something so sad, at least do that thing.

[Klowny]

But they're "Elite," and therefore exempt from performing the service they profess to excel at.

What they really do best is exclude "lesser mortals," hence someone's natural desire to start a sig clan they can join.

[Tom]

Sig clans suck anyway. A funny quote in a sig has twice the impact in a fraction of the time.

I do, think, though, that there should be only one sig clan. Anyone professing to be 'Elite', 'awesome', 'Fantastic', or 'uber' signature makers are clearly imitating the ESM. There's also the Average Signature Makers. If you're so average, you have nothing to seperate you from anyone else and should be closed immediately.

I suppose there's always the oppurnunity for 'The Piss-Poor Signature Makers'. Why not try that?

[Adyum]

The only reason the ASM wold try to move to C&C is for posts, just saying that ,thats the only reason I can think of.

[Justibackwardsn]

I think that there should be two sig clans, mainly to keep people that complain too much about being denied access to membership at ESM because of their lack of skill, but I don't think that both clans should be located in the same part of Game Winners.

The only reason they would want to move to C&C would be for post counts. If they want posts, they can go spam up FOG. I honestly wouldn't care if post count was turned off in C&C.

[Klowny]

What's your stand on the thorny issue of my suggesting that members with fancy CTs be roasted alive?

[Adyum]

So can the ASM open in C&C and not get in trouble or closed?

[Tommy Boy]

Post count is off in C&C. Many usergroups are clans as well. There is no problem in doing so.

[Justibackwardsn]

What's your stand on the thorny issue of my suggesting that members with fancy CTs be roasted alive?

Yum. :-)

I wouldn't be sad/upset if my CT was taken away from me. I wasn't ment to have it. But untill that time comes, I'll keep it.

I still believe that the ASM should stay where it's at right now.

[Kevin]

Aye, called by request.

The ASM was immediately closed by Blind Guardian when it was made a club a few months ago. Following that event, a usergroup was made. What makes you think it won't be closed now?

It's fine in the public group forum. Wouldn't it be sort of confusing having two threads to post in that are the exact same club? As someone else said, the only reason I see people making that move is for the post count. If you really want more posts, go spam up FOG like Justin said. :p

On a side note, could all anti-ESMers just stfu? I'm sick of hearing that we're stuck up or we don't care about lesser members or whatever. If other members choose to ignore a request, that's their decision. I don't support it, but there are times where you'll make a sig, just to have the ricipient never actually pick it up. After fulfilling so many requests and making personal sigs, most people stop, except for the occasional project, and that's when they just chat with the ESM community.

Usually, if you want a signature, you go to the TG. Alternately, if you PM a request, it's more likely to be answered. Also, it's our hobby, not our job, so god forbid we don't make you a signature. We have lives too you know.

[Tommy Boy]

I have never said anything bad about ESM.

Post count is off in C&C. I said that already. :shrug:

[Viper]

If the only reason for ASM to move to C&C is post count then maybe the sole reason ASM was created was for just that.

Also, if you notice in the first post of ESM it says to go to TG first before asking there. It also never says the ESM is for requests on signatures. It says you can request them there but it was not created for that sole purpose. Also the ASM is just gonna end up dead. All the members there except a few will probably get better and attempt to join ESM. If they make it in they will probably forget about ASM. ASM's own creator is trying to join ESM. If he gets in at some point I don't know if he will want to be a part of ASM anymore.

-\/iper

[Kevin]

I have never said anything bad about ESM.

Post count is off in C&C. I said that already. :shrug:
No, you haven't. Don't worry, I'm not naming any names, but I see it every so often in different places (including this thread).

Post count in C&C is turned on. In fact, I just checked to make sure (As in, I posted :p).

[Tommy Boy]

For real?

I always thought it was off, since people RP and stuff.

It's better off we do not move their, as we have conversations.

[Kat]

My fellow ESM members may not like that I'm posting this, but this is my feeling on the matter..

The ASM is not exactly the same thing. Some people may want to talk about signatures, and get help making them, but since we turn them down they have no place to go (except TG I guess). I think "Casual Sig Makers" would be a more accurate name -- as opposed to those of us who take it more seriously. Why shouldn't they have their own club? It's similar but doesn't serve the same purpose. There shouldn't be multiple "elite" clubs and there shouldn't be multiple "average" clubs, but one of each can coincide just fine IMO.

Kittah, the club actually was created as a place for people to request sigs, but I think everybody has gotten to the point where it's enough trouble to just make them for themselves. As a result, a lot of requests sadly get ignored.

And to all of those getting on our case about having "elite" in our name or being proud of making good signatures -- so what? We just want a place where we can talk with people who share a common interest. That's all any club is for.

[Adyum]

So does that mean the leaders of the ASM can make a thread in C&C as long it is called the Casual Sig Makers???

If so I will make it becuase Fly is away and Teh Kittah wont want it. SO I can and it wont be closed down right?

[Lumina]

So does that mean the leaders of the ASM can make a thread in C&C as long it is called the Casual Sig Makers???

If so I will make it becuase Fly is away and Teh Kittah wont want it. SO I can and it wont be closed down right?

Why don't we just wait for Fly? I know he's away, but you don't exactly own everything. :hmm:

I don't really see the big deal, a clan ASM will just be the same as the group.

[Kevin]

The ASM is not exactly the same thing. Some people may want to talk about signatures, and get help making them, but since we turn them down they have no place to go (except TG I guess). I think "Casual Sig Makers" would be a more accurate name -- as opposed to those of us who take it more seriously. Why shouldn't they have their own club? It's similar but doesn't serve the same purpose. There shouldn't be multiple "elite" clubs and there shouldn't be multiple "average" clubs, but one of each can coincide just fine IMO.
I agree. Anyone who remembers TSL will say it did fine, and having two signature making clans doesn't really pose any problems. What I was talking about was the fact that BG had closed the ASM the first time SF tried to make it, so what makes it different now? By all means go ahead, but it's up to the C&C moderators to decide whether or not the clan belongs there.

[Tommy Boy]

Why don't we just wait for Fly? I know he's away, but you don't exactly own everything. :hmm:

I don't really see the big deal, a clan ASM will just be the same as the group.
Moving to C&C is a bad idea now that I know post count is on.

[Viper]

I agree with Kat and LHL.

And I also think we should wait for Fly. He created ASM and I don't think if you were the creator of a usergroup you would want someone else creating the club.

-\/iper

[Tommy Boy]

Luigi and Teh Kittah are both leaders.

[Viper]

Still... Fly was the creator so unless he says it's ok for someone else to create it I think you guys should wait for him.

-\/iper

[Lumina]

Luigi and Teh Kittah are both leaders.

Which I had no idea how that happened...

Im not an actual leader, as in I can't let people in and stuff like that, so Fly should be the one to post it.

[Tommy Boy]

Eh, I don't want it in there.

eyem teh l33+est member s0 eye ch00se! :bashhead::roaryellsmile:

[Sabin]

I'm just here to be a spiffy cool person.

ASM should be allowed to have it's own clan? No. Why? Because it's a duplicate clan that already exists. Why can't people see rules for being rules...the "no dup clans" is there to reduce this kinda crap. In fact, I hope/wish the mods of C&C would just fu*king ZT new sig clans being made, I'm tired of them randomly popping up, just for the post counts. What possible reason could ASM have to get moved to C&C, other than post counts? Not a damn thing. They have a 'clan', just because it doesn't get them posts every time they SPAM up their thread, they think they deserve to be moved to C&C&? Hell no.

Besides that, if you'll look at half of the ASM's CTs/info/sigs/posts, ESM is included, somehow.

[Lazy F*ck]

I'm just here to be the sucky dipsh*t.

It seems the only reason for the ASM to make a thread in C&C is for post counts, which is stupid, since post counts are pretty useless, so I say leave it where it is. A usergroup's the same as a club, only in a different forum. I can understand people wanting to talk about sigs and stuff without being 'elite', and the ASM is the place to do that, but there's no reason to put it in C&C. And yeah, if you want to get tecnical, then you can see it as "against the rules". :p

[Tommy Boy]

Rawr everyone. Enough.

We aren't moving to ASM, we had people complaining they wanted it in C&C because they don't like joining usergroups. ( :whatever: ) I mention the idea to SF and he said it sounded like an okay idea, because I never realized post count was on. Do not worry, ASM is staying where it is at for less confusion and less spam, because we only talk in ASM, rarely presenting sigs.

[/rawrness]

[Kevin]

Note: Look at the two LHL's join dates. Just to avoid any confusion...

Although I agree with Sabin to some extent, it's only fair that the ASM can have a club. I don't think they should have any fewer rights than TSL did, even though I view the two in completely different lights. But in the end, it's up to the C&C mods, really.

[Tommy Boy]

Two of you? :hmm:

Which is who? I'm confused now.

[The Parkie]

I don't think they should have any fewer rights than TSL did, even though I view the two in completely different lights.
Wasn't TSL closed down in the end because ESM was there instead?

[Lumina]

Two of you? :hmm:

Which is who? I'm confused now.

There's three, DL, Moron, and F*ck.

I say keep it where it is, then everyone except for the picky people will be happy.

[Viper]

Do not worry, ASM is staying where it is at for less confusion and less spam, because we only talk in ASM, rarely presenting sigs.
Everyone is getting pissed off at ESM and thinking ASM is better and that they actually make sigs there. One of ASM's own just admitted they rarely presented sigs. If you look at the two, ESM and ASM aren't really all that different. ESM is just a little more strict and envoles lots of skill. ASM is a place for the more casual sig makers. However, everyone seems to look at the ASM diffrently because they "accept more people". The only reason ESM doesn't accept people in is because we wanted a club to have people with lots of skill in signatures. If we didn't reject people there would be members asking how to do basic things. The club is for high skill signature makers. Everyone keeps thinking of ESM as the bad guys/girls.
I'm not at all trying to diss ASM just proving my point of how ESM is being judged by many members of GW.

Ok... That was all... You can go back to figuring out if it'll be created in C&C again.

-\/iper

[Kevin]

Wasn't TSL closed down in the end because ESM was there instead?
Sam closed down TSL himself. It's not because the ESM was there, but because most people in TSL were in ESM, so everyone kept posting the same thing in two threads. People who weren't in the ESM got f*cked because of that, but it really was like two identical threads.

[Jesse2]

Whoa! There are two of you guys? Man, this is confusing!

Wait.... *looks at own name*

THERE ARE THREE LHL'S??? *dies*


Anywho, with all of this bickerin' going on, I guess I'll say a few words....

It seems to me that the ASM was started, because UDK (Now Fly) was pissed at us ESM'rs for figuring out he generated a sig and ended up leaving. I thought that it was just a copy of the ESM and a retreat for those who were mad that they couldn't get in to it. But as time passed, I realized that it wasn't so bad after all. It's a place for those who are above average, but not quite ready to be deemed "elite".

I, personally, think that the ASM should be allowed to have a clan in C&C. The only problem that I see, is that would people actually request sigs there, if they see the Elite Signature Makers topic right next to it.

And, though I hate to go against my fellow members, we have been a little lazy in the sig making business, lately. But, hey, there is usually a few people that are willing to help.

[The Kittle One]

wow i dont go on for a day and ther is 47 post and i dont want to make an ASM club
I want to make a new club for sig makers not good enough for ESM if you remember the SMG and ISM they were sig clans i liked.

[Tommy Boy]

GO TO THE ASM THREAD. WE WILL GLADLY ACCEPT YOU.

You know what I think.

ESM > ASM

They are better at sigs and deserved to have their own group for people that meet their skill class. ASM is a place where we just hang out. You CAN post sigs there, and there ARE lessons you can do. Sheesh. :faint:

[Sabin]

And, though I hate to go against my fellow members, we have been a little lazy in the sig making business, lately. But, hey, there is usually a few people that are willing to help.

Who counter-posted against that?:hmm:...hell we ARE lazy...

*Goes to IP check The Kittle One*, I swear to god...if he's linked to that Wezel guy, or one of the other ISM leaders...

In any case, anything other than ASM is definitly off limits.

Edit:...nevermind...usernotes helped...Umm, yea, Teh Kittle One = Hex, should any of you remember him...

[The Kittle One]

I guess SMG wasnt that great. but i did like ISM. They closed ISM to make a sig school that taught me nothing and now it is dead.

[Adyum]

GO TO THE ASM THREAD. WE WILL GLADLY ACCEPT YOU.

You know what I think.

ESM > ASM


I must agree with that too.

[Sabin]

I guess SMG wasnt that great. but i did like ISM. They closed ISM to make a sig school that taught me nothing and now it is dead.

For god's sake...go hide in a hole before everyone hates you again.

[Rabid]

For god's sake...go hide in a hole before everyone hates you again.


before? Too late. First post I saw of his and I already dislike him...

[Tommy Boy]

before? Too late. First post I saw of his and I already dislike him...
Seconded.

[Viper]

The ISM was a place to post sigs. If you want to post sigs go to the TG. Or is this about post count and you want more posts?

-\/iper

[Tommy Boy]

Please read the rest of the thread before talking about post count. :rolleyes:

[Viper]

I was refering to The Kittle One, Tommy. He said he liked the ISM better when all they did there was post their sigs. I said he could just post them in the TG but post count is turned off there. So I was asking The Kittle One if this was about post count and not about if he liked the ISM better or not.

Please read the rest of the thread before telling me to do so when I've posted throughout this thread. :rolleyes:

-\/iper

[Rabid]

I was refering to The Kittle One, Tommy. He said he liked the ISM better when all they did there was post their sigs. I said he could just post them in the TG but post count is turned off there. So I was asking The Kittle One if this was about post count and not about if he liked the ISM better or not.

Please read the rest of the thread before telling me to do so when I've posted throughout this thread. :rolleyes:

-\/iper
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what TG is for, posting sigs and figuring out how to post and such?

never mind tommy, he's retarded :tease:

[Lumina]

OMG, Viper is a GIRL, second time today. :rotfl:

[Viper]

Yeah... It was closed down a long time ago... That wasn't really the reason but whatever.

-\/iper

[Rabid]

Viper is a GIRL
Not to get off topic or anything, but "fur real?" lol

[Tommy Boy]

Yeah, for real. I just found out today, too.

Yes, excuse my retardation. I'm also vertically challenged. All my defunct features are located in my handy brochure. :duh:

[Lazy F*ck]

The ISM was a place to post sigs. If you want to post sigs go to the TG.
:mad:

The ISM was for people who weren't Elite, but didn't want to deal with the nooby-ness of the SMG. When we posted sigs it was for our sig comp, I believe...

*Stumbles off*

[The Kittle One]

I knew vipers was a girl for long time. The ISM was like that, not for nooby or Elite or average more like above average but not elite. They didnt just post sigs either.

[Tommy Boy]

ASM is for above average people as well.

[The Kittle One]

then why is it called [b]Average[/bold] signature makers instead of above average signature makers

[Tommy Boy]

I pity you for that code.

Stop making an arguement. No ASM in C&C.

Fin.

[The Kittle One]

sorry for the bold thing i wasnt paying attention it should of been average
and is it your choice to end this argument?

[Tommy Boy]

Yeah.

It's pointless.

[Lumina]

Yeah.

It's pointless.

Quoted for truth.

No, seriously, just drop it. This whole arguement was pointless anyway. Just be non-lazy enough to go to Group memberships and join ASM. :whatever:

[Tom]

Look, if I started a clan called 'The Ultimate Simpsons Fan Club', and refused some people entry, if they went off and made a clan called 'The Average Simpsons Fan Club', it'd get closed. Why should you guys be any different?

[Tommy Boy]

ESM and ASM skill level.

[Viper]

:mad:

The ISM was for people who weren't Elite, but didn't want to deal with the nooby-ness of the SMG. When we posted sigs it was for our sig comp, I believe...

*Stumbles off*

Maybe I'm thinking of the SMG then... But ISM was basically just for talking and posting sigs. Which is exactly like the ESM except the skill level is less. :shrug: Whatever.

Look The Kittle One, it's either join ASM, try to join ESM, or not be part of either. Your choice.

-\/iper

[Sabin]

If only there was an active mod around...oh wait...*looks at mod CT above name*

I assume you all know that this won't be closed for some time now...unless an upper management comes along...I suggest someone PMing one or something.

*looks at Kat*

[Kat]

Uh, I guess I'll close this then..

[Crazy Jamie]

Thanks for that Kat, had I actually not stopped by to check on things and you hadn't stepped in this thread could have overrun the forum.

From what I can see here it appears that it is just a case of forum policy at work. It also seems that this case is founded upon the fact that the person who brought the case doesn't agree with the policy in one particular situation. Unfortunately that is not enough for an exception to be made. The legitimacy of rules is significantly founded upon the consistency of those rules. If you start to make exceptions for no good reason then respect for the rules is lost, and they wholly fail to function. Klown said that he didn't see why various groups shouldn't be made around the same area. A fair point, but the rules as I understand them is that they can't be (with good reason) and there are few exceptions to that. The consistency of those rules is and should be valued over one or a couple of members' dissatisfaction towards them.