Council of Tolkien

[AlecTrevylan006]

I think we need a Council of Tolkien. Just to argue about little LotR geek thinks and be elitist. I call dibs on head. When you may ask? Just now
123 DIBS!
I win.

Anyone else want in?

First arguement on deck, Orcs vs Goblins. Is there a difference?

Other topics to come
What the hell is a Uruk-hai?
Does a Balrog have wings, and can it fly?
Who would you rather do, Eowyn, Arwen, Galadriel or Legolas?
If a ent falls in a forest, and it squishes a hobbit, but there's nobody around to hear it, does anybody care?
Who thinks it would have been real cool if the ride of the rohirrim had been with coconuts instead of horses, and the eagles replaced with African swallows (not European swallows)
What is Tom Bombadil?
Who killed the Deputy Chairman of the Council of Tolkien? Was it the menacing lieutenant inle, the confused Shortkut, the envious, mind-melted spike, or the 2003 New York Yankees?
Why didn't they just fly the damn ring to Mordor?
Why did they HAVE to make Gimli into the token asian lesbian character?
Is a turtle without a shell homeless or naked?
Did you expect the Spanish Inquisition?
If France and Poland got in a fight, wouldn't it be cool to see a single Nazgul kick both their asses?
Are elves g@y or just metrosexual?

And many more famous topics...

[AlecTrevylan006]

Whats this about world domination in my absence? I assure you, thoughts of that are no longer necessary now that I have returned

[Tokito's Girl]

Ok,new topic on deck! I am a little confused on why they had to make Gimli a token Asian lesbian character.Maybe my hindsight is a tad off but to me he seemed more like he would go both ways and instead of just the one.Actually come to think about it I think my hindsight is off ( as they say hindsight is 20/20 ). Can anyone help clear this up for me?Cause I'm confused!Hi sam000000777!Whats up?

[shortkut]

asians are small and dwarves are small? :shrug:

[Tokito's Girl]

That really explains alot,thanx Shortkut.( enter omnisscent state of confusion and going deeper).Could you be a little more explanatory please?

[shortkut]

no

[Tokito's Girl]

Well gee,thanx.But isnt that being a little stereotypical saying that just because Gimli is short,like asian women are,he is gay?Think about it though, just because Asian women are short by genetics doesnt mean they are all gay and not all Asians are short either.I mean if you are talking about it in the terms of Dwarf men and Dwarf women look alike and its hard to tell them apart then I would have to agree with you.But it seems to me like thats what you are doing in the aforementioned answer above.Dont get mad and think that you offended me or anything but thats opinion solely based on your comment that "Asian women are short".

[shortkut]

no, that is why he the stereotypical asian character. the bundled the gay part there because they felt bad for him so they wanted him to be more than just "asian"

[Tokito's Girl]

Ok,just wondering!Although I still say that Gimili isnt gay.And for anybody who thinks the elves are gay,they are not gay!They just happen to be good-looking pepole who just happen to live in trees and other dwellins depending on the region.Its their fault that they imbody perfection to such a grand scale.They arent entirely perfect b/c they can still die.Albeit only in battle or by a broken heart but still they arent gay.Actually I think they are metrosexuals.They do fall in love with women you know.Yeah I know inserted two topics at once.

[Yellow Banshee]

They made Gimli the token asian lesbian character because of the ludicrus moviegoing asian lesbian demographic. Elves may not be gay, but I think Legolas is fishin' off of the other side of the boat, if ya' know what I mean, eh? He's blowin' up the wrong side of the balloon if ya' know what I mean, eh? He's walking on water, if ya' know what I mean, eh? Eh?? EH!?!?

[Tokito's Girl]

Legolas is not doing anything of the sort thank you oh so very much,DS! It just so happens that I think he was set to be married to a female elf when this whole Ring War started and then he,being a Prince and probably a captain of his father's army,it was his duty to go to war and try and save Middle-Earth and he is best friends with Aragorn and more than likely he knew Aragorn when Aragorn was but a small boy and probably spent time with him at such time in his young life and well into adult hood.Well,until he went to live in exile anyway!He knew Aragorn was the rightful King of Gondor and therefore had to protect him as a boy at certain periods in his ( Aragorn's) life.Because Elrond and the other ELven Lords are on very good terms with each other and therefore had some involvement in his raising after his mother died of her horrific injuries.I will thank you not to insult him again!B/c he his my favorite character and I take as a personal insult as well!So, if you want to stay on my good side then you would do well to remeber my aforementioned warning and not do it again!The same goes for the Hobbits as well!GOT IT,DS? Sorry if I come off a little harsher than I would noramlly be but I was already pissed off by someone from the SH thread and I apologize,DS.

[Yellow Banshee]

First of all, I never said anything definitive about Legolas. I mentioned his fishing habits, how he blows up balloons, and the fact that Elves are lightfooted. I never said he was gay, or that Elves are gay. It was sarcasm. I like the Elves too, and Legolas is one of my favorite characters. Also, he was called a prince in the movie, but that's not true. In the book it's mentioned that he's merely a messenger. As for everything else, um... wow. You really don't like gay-sayers...


(That was a pun.)

[Tokito's Girl]

It is mentioned in the appendix of the ROTK that the KIng of Mirkwood is his father so he is a prince.Kings would only trust something that important to their heir and thats why he was sent instead of another Elf who was just as capable of taking the message to Elrond.There is is this book that you can buy on the characters and such of the LOTR and it even states in there that Legolas is a prince.Besides,thats how TOlkien wrote the character of Legolas in the first place.Something as important as the war against Sauron the king of Mirkwood would send someone that he knew he could trust to not to try and take the One Ring but to try and destroy it.Besides I dont think it was suppose to be common knowledge that Legolas is a prince anyway.All I know is the fact that he is a prince and that Thranduil is his father and he was the only one that his father trusted enough and had enough experience to take this message to Elrond in the first place.Even in the book,when that entire argument breaks out between the Dwarves, Elves, Gandalf,and Boromir,the elves that accompained Legolas on his journey were going to get in a fight with the Dwarves had Legolas not stop them from them stepping around him.He held them back and they just started arguing instead.Now, if he werent a prince then the others would not have obeyed his silent command and stayed where they were.They did as they were told and sopped dead in their tracks and only a prince could have stopped them in the first place.He doesnt give the command out loud but since he put out his arms and they stop then that helps prove my point.If he was just a higher ranking Elf in the army then there is a good chance that they wouldnt have stopped when motioned to do so.

[Yellow Banshee]

Ok, you win. I believe you. Your last statement, however, says that the elves might not have stopped if Legolas was just a higher-ranking Elf in the Wood-Elf military. I'm pretty sure they would have. Elf military is highly disciplined, and to disobey a commanding officer's order would have brought great punishment. Legolas may be a prince, but the moment you speak of doesn't necesarily prove it. Oh, and one more thing: Do you see that big button underneath the "C" "V" "B" "N" "M" and "," keys? That's the space bar. You use it in between words and after every period. Please space after evey sentence, it makes Italic fonts like yours much easier to read.

[Vamp]

Anyone else?
Yeah, sounds good. We could talk about the Easterlings...

[Shadowlance]

OK. I'd say they are from the East...and they are either decieved or evil.

[AlecTrevylan006]

Alright, I tried to split this and keep only the relevant posts, but I still had 115, so I'll have to retry sometime

[Shadowlance]

Haha! Anyway, I've been reading the The Fellowship again lately, and decided that a good topic would be Tom Bombadil. A very mysterious man don't you agree?

[Tokito's Girl]

Yea, he is a mysterious guy.But he is also a good guy at the same time.Hence,Tom giving the ring back to Frodo after he is done looking at it.And I strongly suspect Gandalf had asked Tom to help Frodo and the others along their way. As for the easterlings, well, I wouldnt say all of them were wholly evil.I suspect that alot of them were decevied and threatened to go along with the enemy. There were some that could've been evil right down to the core and wouldnt need a good reason or threats and such to side with Sauron.

[Shadowlance]

Well Gandalf talks about Sauron drawing all evil to him, and I don't think they would go to Sauron unless they were truly evil. I think Saruman was more of a deciever than Sauron. Saruman lies to the wild men near Rohan, in order to get them to destroy the people. In the book, one thing I thought was interesting was when the hobbits were talking to Tom all of a sudden there is this reference to an ancient kingdom of the area, and Tom seems sad and goes quiet. Do you think he was once a king of the area? He is obviously very old.

[Tokito's Girl]

It could be very likely that he was a King of that kingdom. It makes sense or he could have been in the kingdom has a peasent or something like that,

[Vamp]

Did Tom save Frodo and company from a tree? I can't remember now.

As for the Easterlings, even in the first age they were constantly attacking the Free peoples. When did they come under the control of Sauron?

[Shadowlance]

Yes Tom initially saved them from being swallowed by an evil tree, and let them come to his house, and then later saved them from a barrow wight.

[Tokito's Girl]

The Easterlings came under the control of Sauron in the Second Age,I think?I think that Tom was a king of some sort to be able to get an evil tree and barrow-wight to listen to him.

[Shadowlance]

Yeah, he must be some sort of ruler, because he seems to have power over everything. A different question though is what is he? The book describes him as being slightely taller than a hobbit, but not as tall as a man.

[Vamp]

I don't think he ruled anywhere. It is really hard to discuss Tom as he is such a mysterious character.

[Tokito's Girl]

I dont really know.Furthermore, I doubt we'll ever know seeing as how Tolkien never explained it to us as we read the book.If he wasnt a ruler at all,Vampy,then explain why he got sad when they started talking about a distant Kingdom that is no longer in exsistence!

[shortkut]

probably the kingdom of the vala

if i had to guess i'd say he was a maia.

inlé, where is that link that spoke about him?

[kurt]

The Easterlings came under the control of Sauron in the Second Age,I think?I think that Tom was a king of some sort to be able to get an evil tree and barrow-wight to listen to him.
i prety sure they didn't say in the books but if u have the game lotr bfme you eather take them by force or tribuet and uruk-hai i thought they were a cross beteew a man and a orc

[Tokito's Girl]

You know,shortkut,I wouldnt be suprised if you were right.The Uruk-hai are a cross between orcs and goblin men,actually.That is what Gandalf told Elrond in the movie and the book.

[shortkut]

goblins & orcs = same

uruk-hai i thought were the orc men, orcs mixed with men so that they could be out in daylight

[Tokito's Girl]

I dont know! All I do know is what I already told you about the Uruk-Hai!They could mixed with men!

[Vamp]

i prety sure they didn't say in the books but if u have the game lotr bfme you eather take them by force or tribuet
I have BFME, it's the Haradrim that you are told to get control of. I think the Easterlings willingly joined with Sauron, if I am not mistaken, they were constantly attacking Gondor long before the war of the ring, they may have seen an alliance with Sauron as the perfect chance to finally destroy Gondor.

then explain why he got sad when they started talking about a distant Kingdom that is no longer in exsistence!
He may have been very cose to this Kingdom. Just because he got sad does not necessarily mean hu ruled the Kingdom.

[Tokito's Girl]

No, it doesnt mean he ruled the Kingdom. Like I said he could have some other role concerning the Lost Kingdom.You know, I completely and totally forgot about the Haradrim.

[Tokito's Girl]

Its possible that there could have been a kingdom in his area a VERY long time ago.It could also be that he is one of the Istari and been sent there to help them out.Or he could have been around when the Valor were inhabiting Middle-Earth.

[Shadowlance]

The main thing that is hard to figure out is what he is. He was one of the first people on Middle Earth by his own confession.

[Tokito's Girl]

How exactly are we supposed to figure out what Tom is, when we have only a few clues to go on in the first place? I believe that he was one of the first people on Middle-Earth. I dont see why he would lie to Frodo and his friends. I mean after all he did give the ring back to Frodo and it didnt hold power over him, so why would he even want it?

[Vamp]

Tom is immune to the power of the ring, if you will.

[Shadowlance]

Yeah I think its to the point where HE has power over IT. He seems to have power over just about everything, yet he refused to leave his lands.

[Tokito's Girl]

He wont leave his lands b/c he likes it there and if he leaves then who will be there to protect it and keep evil from taking it over and destroying it.Besides,its apparent that he is the only one that can protect Goldberry from evil. ( note: who is this Goldberry exactly,anyway?):confused:

[Vamp]

I got the impression that she was his daughter.

[Tokito's Girl]

Wasnt she more Elf-like? If so, then how can she be his daughter?I thought she might have been a forest spirit or something like that.

[Vamp]

Hey look what I found:

Tom tells the Hobbits that he met her by the Withywindle 'long ago', but (as so often where Tom is concerned) it isn't entirely clear what he means by this.
I don't get it...

[The Catalyst]

A new topic thingy:The Grey Havens. Not much explanation in the books. Agree?I think it is supposed to be a boat to heaven. But you may feel differently.

[Tokito's Girl]

I very seriously doubt Elves are Heavenly beings.The Grey Havens is where the elves go to take the boat back to the Elvenhome.The reason much isnt said about the Grey Havens is b/c much isnt known about them anyway.Seeing as how nobody knows where it lies exactly ( except a fair few).:^:

[Zorkmaster]

He wont leave his lands b/c he likes it there and if he leaves then who will be there to protect it and keep evil from taking it over and destroying it.Besides,its apparent that he is the only one that can protect Goldberry from evil. ( note: who is this Goldberry exactly,anyway?):confused:

goldberry was/is the daughter of the river-woman and toms wife [found in the adventures of tom bombadil]

as far as WHAT tom is, its not clear that even tolkien knew

A new topic thingy:The Grey Havens. Not much explanation in the books. Agree?I think it is supposed to be a boat to heaven. But you may feel differently.

nope the boats lead to the undieing lands which was seperated from the rest of middle earth around the time of the fall of numinor the elves can go there but never return [silmarillion?]

[Yellow Banshee]

Yeah. But I agree with the wood elves in eastern Mirkwood. Who needs immortality? We got it good right here in Middle-Earth with convieniant eagles, utterly stupid trolls, Man-Orc-Goblin-Hai, and token lesbian asians!

[Tokito's Girl]

Yeah. But I agree with the wood elves in eastern Mirkwood. Who needs immortality? We got it good right here in Middle-Earth with convieniant eagles, utterly stupid trolls, Man-Orc-Goblin-Hai, and token lesbian asians!


Well,that is true.Indeed!But not all the elves would agree with you on the "who needs immortality" thing.

[Yellow Banshee]

True. But anyone with a healthy sense of greed can realize that wealth is more important. Like the Wood Elf King.

[Tokito's Girl]

You do have a good point there,Yellow!But not only did the wood elf king love riches,he loved his family and people more especially his son!Even the elves wouldnt give up their family and people for all the power and riches in the world.

[Inlé_rah]

Even the elves wouldnt give up their family and people for all the power and riches in the world.
Ever read the Silmarillion?

[shortkut]

apparently not

[Tokito's Girl]

I would if I had the book at my disposal. I'll put it this way, NOT all elves would trade their family in for riches and power.

[Inlé_rah]

I would if I had the book at my disposal. I'll put it this way, NOT all elves would trade their family in for riches and power.
Not all. But quite a few. :D

shorkut: Wasn't that kind of the plot of the Silmarillion?

Inlé: Hmm. Well...of the Quenta Silmarillion. The Music of the Ainur was the creation myth, the Valaquenta was about the Valar, the Quenta Silmarillion was about elves trading their family for riches and power, the Akallabeth was about the people of Numenor reenacting the story of Atlantis, right down to the making the Gods Valar angry and going 'sploosh!,' and the last part "of the rings of power and the third age" was like lord of the rings with less poetry and singing. :D

shortkut: ...maybe that was a little over simplified...

Inlé: *shrug* Fine...the Quenta Silmarillion is Tolkein's little morality play about evil coming from attachments to ones own works and the things of this world, represented smackingly obviously enough by the...

shortkut: Shines!

Inlé: Yes. By the shinies

shorkut: And there is stabbity, fiery, burny, death.

Inlé: Plenty.

shortkut: And world destruction.

Inlé: Oh yes.

[shortkut]

i never could decide which i liked more, the shinies, the stabbity fiery burny death, or world destruction. how about i get all the shinies and then cause some stabbity fiery burny world destruction :confused:

[Inlé_rah]

i never could decide which i liked more, the shinies, the stabbity fiery burny death, or world destruction. how about i get all the shinies and then cause some stabbity fiery burny world destruction :confused:
Didn't Morgoth do that? Kind of?

But you have to give Feanor some credit here. Without him, the Silmarillion would have been some 300 pages shorter. Title might have been different too.

I always liked this part.:D

MORGOTH: Eek!
VALAR: Got your shinies!
MAGLOR AND MAEDHROS: You mean OUR shinies!
VALAR: Oh *!&(!&).
MAGLOR AND MAEDHROS: Ow! Burny shinies!
MAEDHROS: Fine. This sucks. *jumps into chasm*
MAGLOR: Um... not really looking forward to meeting Dad again... *chucks shiny into sea* Bye. *wanders off*
VALAR: Well... um... okay.

[Tokito's Girl]

Can we get back on topic, you two?

[shortkut]

we are summarizing the silmarillion in layman's terms. we are on topic because the topic changes with the pace of the thread. it went from you being wrong about the elfses to the silmarillion to the summary of the silmarillion. yay for on topicness :link:

[Tokito's Girl]

we are summarizing the silmarillion in layman's terms. we are on topic because the topic changes with the pace of the thread. it went from you being wrong about the elfses to the silmarillion to the summary of the silmarillion. yay for on topicness :link:

So what, exactly, does shinies have to do with the Silmarillion anyway?:confused: For a layman's explanation of the what the Silmarillion is about, it was rather entertaining.

[Inlé_rah]

So what, exactly, does shinies have to do with the Silmarillion anyway?:confused: For a layman's explanation of the what the Silmarillion is about, it was rather entertaining.
Shinies is an old joke from something I found online and posted here a while ago. It's layman's term for the Silmarils.

Largely stolen from Wikipedia:
The silmarils were three gems of immense might and beauty created by Fëanor while the Elves were still in Valinor. They contained some of the light from the Two Trees of Valinor made by Yavana and Nienna.

Together with Ungoliant (spider thing - related to Shelob), Melkor destroyed the Two Trees, and the Silmarils then contained all the remaining light from them. The Valar asked Fëanor to give up the Silmarils so they could restore the Trees, but that didn't happen because Feanor was being Feanor. And about that time, Melkor stole the Silmarils and got himself renamed Morgoth (Dark Lord #1). Also killed Fëanor's father. Set the Silmarils into his iron crown. Fled to the north of Middle Earth...

Fëanor gets furious at Melkor and at the Valar because they asked for his shinies. He and his sons swear an oath that they would not rest until the Silmarils were recovered (pretty much no matter what was in their way - including extended family), leads the Ñoldor (or some of them - including family which he is on shaky terms with) back to Middle-earth. And there was lots of fighting and death. five major battles, methinks.

One of the Silmarils was recovered by Beren and Lúthien. This stone was later taken by Eärendil to the Valar in the West as a token of repentance. The Valar then set this Silmaril as a star. The other two gems remained in Morgoth's hands, and were taken from him only at the end of the War of Wrath. (Basically, the Valar sent a host to kick his butt). However, soon afterwards, they were stolen by Fëanor's two sons Maedhros and Maglor (That pesky oath -remember?). The jewels burned their hands, in refusal of their rights of possession because they family had done some pretty crappy things to get their jewels back. (Dad and their 5 other brothers are all dead by this point as well as just about everyone who left Valinor who was high-ups: letsses... [Feanor, Maedhros, Maglor, Celegorm, Caranthir, Curufin, Amrod, Amras, / Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon, Aredhel, / Finrod, Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor, Galadriel. Yeah. Don't much fancy the casualty rate.) Maedhros throws himself and his Silmaril into a fiery pit, (Maedhros) and Maglor throws his into the sea and then wanders the western coast of Middle Earth or something....

The Silmarillion is mockable for its artful (and sometimes just plain over the top) grandeosity. That is why 'shinies' and this is so amusing:

Link: http://camwyn.livejournal.com/328358.html

AINULINDALE

ILUVATAR: Ahem.
AINUR: Wow! Existence!
ILUVATAR: *blows pitch pipe* LA!
AINUR: LA LA LA!
ILUVATAR: LA LA!
AINUR: LA LA!
MELKOR: This sucks. BUM BUM BA DUM!
AINUR: Um. . . la?
ILUVATAR: Ahem. LA!
MELKOR: Boop bop-a-doo-bop!
ILUVATAR: LA, dammit.
MELKOR: Bwam bardle ningle boom.
AINUR: . . .
ILUVATAR: Right, you're out of the band.
MELKOR: Fine, I was leaving anyway.
AINUR: . . .
ILUVATAR: What are you waiting for?
AINUR: Oh. Right. Newly created world. Sorry. Great jam session, big guy!
ILUVATAR: Yeesh.

VALAQUENTA

MANWE: I'm in charge!
VARDA: I'm Manwe's spouse. And queen of the stars!
NAMO: I do death and fate. They call me Mandos.
VAIRE: I'm Namo's spouse. I weave things.
IRMO: I have gardens. They call me Lorien.
ESTE: I'm Irmo's spouse. I take care of the gardens.
YAVANNA: I make things grow.
NIENNA: I'm sad.
ULMO: I live in the ocean.
AULE: I'm Yavanna's spouse. I've got a great big hammer! I made dwarves.
NESSA: I dance.
OROME: I hunt!
VANA: I'm Orome's spouse. I make living things happy.
TULKAS: I'm strong. I'm Nessa's spouse. I got here last.
MELKOR: I'm bad, momma, I'm ONE BAD MUTHA-
TULKAS: Grar.
MELKOR: Um. Yeah. Hiding now.

QUENTA SILMARILLION

VALAR: Hey! Ilmaren! Party on the island, everyone!
MELKOR: Bah. Too bright. *builds fortress, kicks over lamps*
VALAR: AUGH! *flee to west*
MELKOR: Hu hu hu.
VALAR: Oooooh SHINY TREES! Yavanna made shiny trees!
YAVANNA: Yep! Aren't they pretty?
MELKOR: Want shiny.
VALAR: Nope.
MELKOR: Why not?
VALAR: Because you're a jerk.
ELVES: Oh hey, stars. Shiny!
MELKOR: Oh hey, breeding stock.
ELVES: AUGH!
UNGOLIANT: Want shiny.
MELKOR: Let's go get shiny.
FEANOR: I've made more shiny!
VALAR: Good, 'cos Melkor took ours. Can we have yours?
FEANOR: No! MY SHINIES! MINE!
VALAR: Aw, !&*()!@&)!(&.
MELKOR: Got the shinies!
UNGOLIANT: Not enough shiny. Want more shiny!
MELKOR: You can't have 'em.
UNGOLIANT: Grar.
MELKOR: Eeek! *runs*
FEANOR AND SONS: We're gettin' our shinies back. And YOU CAN'T HAVE 'EM, Valar!
MELKOR/MORGOTH: No you're not. *stabbity fiery burny death*
BEREN: Ooo! Pretty elf lady!
THINGOL: You can have her if you ... BRING ME A SHINY!
BEREN: Worth a shot.
LUTHIEN: La la la
MORGOTH: Ooo baby... *zzz*
BEREN: Got your shiny!
MORGOTH: you BASTARD! I stole those fair and square!
CARCHAROTH: Grar.
BEREN: Ow!
THINGOL: Got the shiny?
BEREN: 's in my hand.
THINGOL: And?
BEREN: Hand's not here.
THINGOL: Crap, I really wanted that shiny.
CARCHAROTH: GRAR!!!!
BEREN: *dies*
LUTHIEN: *dies* La la la.
MANDOS: ... oh all right.
LUTHIEN: *returns to life*
BEREN: *returns to life*
LUTHIEN: Beren! Look! The shiny! In a necklace!
FEANOR'S SONS: *mutter*
LUTHIEN: *dies again*
BEREN: *dies again*
DIOR: Oo, Mom's shiny!
FEANOR'S SONS: WANT SHINY!
DIOR: *dies*
ELWING: Eek! *grabs shiny, runs*
FEANOR'S SONS: !*&(!)&)*!.
EARENDIL: Hey. Nice shiny. Yo! Valar!
VALAR: Well FINALLY. *stomp stomp stomp*
EARENDIL: Wow, planetary orbit!
MORGOTH: Eek!
VALAR: Got your shinies!
MAGLOR AND MAEDHROS: You mean OUR shinies!
VALAR: Oh *!&(!&).
MAGLOR AND MAEDHROS: Ow! Burny shinies!
MAEDHROS: Fine. This sucks. *jumps into chasm*
MAGLOR: Um... not really looking forward to meeting Dad again... *chucks shiny into sea* Bye. *wanders off*
VALAR: Well... um... okay.

AKALLABETH

VALAR: Thanks for helping with Morgoth, Edain! Have an island! Elros is in charge!
EDAIN: Cool!
VALAR: Don't come looking for us.
EDAIN: Okay.
ELVES OF TOL ERESSEA: Have our stuff!
NUMENOREANS: Neat! Ooo, Middle-Earth!
GIL-GALAD: Dudes. Good to see you.
NUMENOREANS: Yeah, same here. What's going on?
GIL-GALAD: War with Sauron mostly.
MEN OF MIDDLE-EARTH: Shiny tall wonderful wise sea-king dudes! Yay!
NUMENOREANS: Here, have some stuff and wisdom.
MEN OF MIDDLE-EARTH: <3 <3 <3
NUMENOREANS: Life is cool. Why do we have to die?
ELVES: You're human?
NUMENOREANS: Can the Valar fix that?
VALAR: No.
NUMENOREANS: That sucks. Go away.
ELVES: Fine.
ELENDILI: Hey! Over here! We still like you!
MEN OF MIDDLE-EARTH: Gosh, we're lonely.
NUMENOREANS: Whatever, give us your wealth and your children.
MEN OF MIDDLE-EARTH: Um, okay.
ELENDILI: This isn't gonna end well, is it?
ELVES: No.
TAR-PALANTIR: We're sorry?
GIMILKHAD: *I'm* not.
AR-PHARAZON: Thanks for the throne, dude.
TAR-MIRIEL: Hey!
AR-PHARAZON: Shaddap, woman. Sauron, j00 suxx0r! I 0wnz0r j00!
SAURON: Okay.
AR-PHARAZON: Make me immortal.
SAURON: Human sacrifice is good. Also burn that pesky white tree.
AR-PHARAZON: Um. . .
ISILDUR: Hey! White tree! Got your fruit!
SAURON: *makes chicken noises*
AR-PHARAZON: Fine. Tree burn! Fire pretty!
ELENDIL: Isildur, Anarion, get the boats.
AR-PHARAZON: I've got a huge navy! Let's go conquer Valinor!
VALAR: Oh no you don't. *CRASHBANGBOOM*
AR-PHARAZON & CO.: Eeek!
ELENDIL, ISILDUR, ANARION: Wheee!
NUMENOREANS: Arrgh!
NUMENOR: SPLOOSH.
SAURON: Bwa ha ha! Um, where's my body?
ILUVATAR: Did I mention the world is round now?
NUMENOREANS IN EXILE: Well, crap.

OF THE RINGS OF POWER AND THE THIRD AGE:

ELVES: Wonder what's going on over the ocean. This crafting deal is pretty sweet, though!
DWARVES: Yeah, seriously.
ANNATAR: Hi, elves! Wanna learn some cool stuff?
ELVES: Okay!
SAURON: They fell for it.
SEVEN DWARVES: Thanks for the rings! . . oooh, GOLD! MUST HAVE GOLD!
NINE MEN: Neat rings. . . Hey, didn't Mom die like six hundred years ago?
CELEBRIMBOR: Okay, how about we do three more and call it a wrap?
SAURON: How about I do one more and claim them ALL?
ELVES: AUGH!
SAURON: Bwa ha ha!
LAST ALLIANCE OF ELVES AND MEN: Push off.
SAURON: Make me.
ISILDUR: Whack.
SAURON: Ow.
ELROND: Hey, you got his ring. Let's ditch it.
ISILDUR: No.
ELROND: This sucks.
ISILDUR: Tell me about it. *dies*
GONDORIANS: *change calendar*
CIRDAN: Hi, wizards! You in the grey, catch!
SAURON: Okay, that's long enough. Movin' into Dol Guldur.
SARUMAN: It's not him. Also the ring's lost at sea.
RING: No I'm not.
THE WISE: Augh.
THE WEAK: Bad ring! Volcano for you!
RING: *melts*
SAURON: AUGH!
MORDOR: BOOM.
GONDORIANS: *change calendar*
ELROND, GALADRIEL: Road trip!
GANDALF: Hi Cirdan! Still got your ring!
CIRDAN: Cool. Let's go to Valinor!

[Tokito's Girl]

That did make me laugh. I didnt require such a long answer, though the fact that you did spend so much time in typing all that out I do appreciate it very much.

[Inlé_rah]

That did make me laugh. I didnt require such a long answer, though the fact that you did spend so much time in typing all that out I do appreciate it very much.
The pleasure is all mine. I was procrastinating from writing a paper. :D

Plus a lot of it was copied from wikipedia. I just shortened it and added sarcastic comments.

[Dr. Manhattan]

I very seriously doubt Elves are Heavenly beings.The Grey Havens is where the elves go to take the boat back to the Elvenhome.The reason much isnt said about the Grey Havens is b/c much isnt known about them anyway.Seeing as how nobody knows where it lies exactly ( except a fair few).:^:


ok this was way long ago talking about the grey havens but im pretty sure that the elves didnt believe in heaven or stuff like that it said it some where

[Tokito's Girl]

ok this was way long ago talking about the grey havens but im pretty sure that the elves didnt believe in heaven or stuff like that it said it some where

What are you going on about? Heaven and the Grey Havens have nothing to do with each other.The elves dwelt there before they came to Middle-Earth and thats where they go back to when its time for them to leave. But, I wouldnt go as far as calling it heaven or something like that.

[kingoftheabyss!]

Sorry for interrupting your current topic, but isn't the kingdom Tom mentions is the Duniedain* kingdom of Arnor?

[AlecTrevylan006]

...would you like to clarify what exactly you are refering to?

[Tokito's Girl]

I think he means the whole tom Bombadil discussion that we had in here a long while back.
If I remember right then that would be the kingdom that he was refering to.Why do you ask?

[kingoftheabyss!]

Sorry, I don't have the time right this second to write a original responce...but here's a Wikipedia responce when you type in Arnor



In the fiction of J.R.R. Tolkien, Arnor, or the Northern Kingdom, was a kingdom of the Dúnedain in the land of Eriador in Middle-earth. The name probably means "Land of the King", from Sindarin Ara- (high, kingly) + (n)dor (land).

At its greatest, Arnor encompassed almost the whole region of Eriador between Bruinen, Gwathló and Lhûn, and the region which would later be known as the Shire. Arnor's population was composed by Dúnedain in western-central regions and mixed or indigenous (and reluctant as citizens) peoples. Its capital was Annúminas near the lake Nenuial


Although now that I read the topic a little more, Tom mentioned a kingdom long ago...And Arnor collapsed approximatly half way through the third age.....But that was the only kingdom I can think of that was in Tom's realm

Sorry for the Double-Post...But I thought I had to clarify things a tiny bit...


From reading your dicussion I thought nobody knew what kingdom he was reffering to (Tom Bom. that is)....So Arnor is my best guess, though i may of been wrong....According to you guys Tom said "a long time ago"....Tom is the Eldest being in Middle Earth (he's been around for atleast 30 thousand years)....

So im not sure if a "long time" for him would of been 1,500 years. (Which was how long ago Arnor collapsed at the time of the War of the Ring.)

[Tokito's Girl]

We're pretty sure it was the Kingdom of Arnor that Tom was referring to. Otherwise the Men of the North Kingdom wouldnt roam ME like they do. ( i.e. Aragorn and his bretheren.)

[Pierce]

In the book he said the Orcs were elves. Reminds me of the tale of Gil Galhad. I never did find out what happened to him other than he fell into darkness. I guess he died or became a servant of Sauron.

[AlecTrevylan006]

...Gil-Galad was the elf-king killed in battle along with Elendil by Sauron himself when he came out to fight the Last Alliance of Elves and Men >_>

[Inlé_rah]

Alec pretty much said it: Gil-Galad was the last High Kings of the Noldor in Middle Earth and was killed by Sauron in battle.

I not sure that Sauron could quite 'subvert' elves and men in the same way that Morgoth did (ie: 'making' orcs). He never seems to be able to bend things to the point of changing their will. He always seems to work first through trickery. (IE: Eregion, Numenor) And damn is he good at it, Sauron the Deceiver.

[Tokito's Girl]

I think Morgoth had used other methods to turn the Elves into Orcs. He more than likely tortured them and used magic on them or something like that. Sauron was never that powerful like Inle_rah said. Some people can only be decieved for so long and others just get driven crazy from it. ( i.e. Denethor)

[Hockeyruler]

denethor didn't go crazy, he just lost hope. with the loss of hope came sadness, which leads to despair, which leads to anger, which leads to hate, which leads to..... *insert suspense music here* the Dark Side.

but seriously he was still perfectly sane, he just changed his beliefs.

[Tokito's Girl]

Not only did Denethor send his only living son on a suicide mission that his son barely survived. He threw himself off of the highest point of Osgiliath and kill himself after he was going to burn him and Faramir alive. That doesnt sound like a sane person to me. Denethor was also looking in the Palantir that he had to keep an eye on Sauron,and Sauron knowing this used Denethor to his advantage,thereby driving Denethor insane. Boromir himself said that his father's rule was fading which, in turn, caused the people to lose faith in Denethor.

[AlecTrevylan006]

Not only did Denethor send his only living son on a suicide mission that his son barely survived. He threw himself off of the highest point of Osgiliath and kill himself after he was going to burn him and Faramir alive. That doesnt sound like a sane person to me. Denethor was also looking in the Palantir that he had to keep an eye on Sauron,and Sauron knowing this used Denethor to his advantage,thereby driving Denethor insane. Boromir himself said that his father's rule was fading which, in turn, caused the people to lose faith in Denethor.

Let's use books over movies as canon here :P

[Tokito's Girl]

Let's use books over movies as canon here :P

Books or movies it doesnt really matter, either way Denethor was mad and it was partly Sauron's doing. The love or lust for power can drive a person crazy if that person wants to keep it as badly as Denethor did.:P

[AlecTrevylan006]

But in the books Denethor never went mad until he saw the corsairs coming, after leading the siege for a good amount of time. You have to keep in mind that, for all the greatness of the LotR movies, Jackson slaughtered Denethor

[Tokito's Girl]

Not really Alec. Jackson just made the character go crazy earlier than he should have. When Jackson made the movies, the actors had alot of re-writes every 10-20 minutes or so. So ther was going to be things done earlier or later than was in the books. But I do see your point though.

[AlecTrevylan006]

Hey, I loved the movies. But Denethor is portrayed as a raving, powerhungry guy in the beginning and he quickly goes completely insane. In the book he lights the beacons, sends the red arrow to rohan, organizes the defenses of the city through his sorrows, and Faramir was charged with DEFENDING gondorian forts not charging enemy held ones. It's a rather... "'interesting" interpretation

[Hockeyruler]

ya i thought that that charge thing with farimir was weird. and when you read the book, you find that farimir was actually helping to defend ?Osgiliath? (i think) and not charging into enemy lands. if anything he was charging back to the castle.

[Inlé_rah]

ya i thought that that charge thing with farimir was weird. and when you read the book, you find that farimir was actually helping to defend ?Osgiliath? (i think) and not charging into enemy lands. if anything he was charging back to the castle.
Yeah. But on the plus side we got a visual reminder that eating cherry tomatoes is not for first dates. :whatever:

I still don't understand in the movie why making Aragorn the king necessiated turning Denethor into the villian. I really do think that that is what it was about. They really butchered him with all this "fiddle while Rome burns" crap.

[Hockeyruler]

well technically, it would have been better for the soldiers if gandalf let farimir die. It said in the book that the men were very scared. and that when gandalf came next to them they were suddenly heartened.

so for one thing, they would have fought better.

and for another, gandalf also would have fought. causing more deaths of the enemyies, which causes less deaths of soldiers.

so really gandalf was kind to farimir, but because of that many people died. you can't really blame him though.

[AlecTrevylan006]

well technically, it would have been better for the soldiers if gandalf let farimir die. It said in the book that the men were very scared. and that when gandalf came next to them they were suddenly heartened.

so for one thing, they would have fought better.

and for another, gandalf also would have fought. causing more deaths of the enemyies, which causes less deaths of soldiers.

so really gandalf was kind to farimir, but because of that many people died. you can't really blame him though.

Killing even an extra thousand enemies at that point in the battle would do nothing. Mordor would just dispatch more reserves.

[Hockeyruler]

Killing even an extra thousand enemies at that point in the battle would do nothing. Mordor would just dispatch more reserves.

ahhh, but that would take time, here is a mini storyline to illustrate my point, Urg is the sergeant orc, and Blurg is a footsoldier, Bob is a gondorian knight and Phil is a Gondorian knight of higher rank.

With Gandalf helping Farimir.

Blurg: "Me wanna kill humans!"
Urg: "Go kill humans then Blurg!"
Blurg: *Runs off into fight.*
Phil: "Hold strong men. Hold strong."
Bob: "Ahhh! But terrible Nazgul, me scarred!"
Urg: "Stupid human!"
*kills Bob*

With Gandalf helping soldiers.

Blurg: "Me wanna kill humans!"
Urg: "Go kill humans then Blurg!"
Blurg: *Runs off into fight.*
Phil: "Ooooh lookie! Gandalf here"
Bob: "WHERE!"
Phil: "Keep your head on. Up there."
Bob: "WOOOHOOO! I'm pumped now!"
*Swings sword down in a "pumped" gesture.
Happens to kill Blurg.*
Urg: "Uh ohs. Reinforcements will take weeks to arrive!"

Now obviously without Gandalf the poor knight Bob would have died, but since Blurg is gone he is still alive.

Top that Alec!