Come Here With Your Questions on: Satanism III

[Blacks42]

This will be a series of topic designed to help better inform the populace of GW on the various religions. Hopefully, it will also help to inform people of various things prior to them making mistakes that are either false or misunderstandings.

The following 3 posts is information supplied by Shalgroth.

[Blacks42]

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!


Interprettation:
1. Well, that's pretty simple to understand... Does it feel good? Then do it!

2. This is probably one of the most "realistic" statements... It points out that this is the here and now, why bother HOPING you'll go to "Heaven" (Or any other kind of spiritual utopia) when our time is now, in this materialistic realm.

3. Undefiled wisdom being what you learn through an open, clear-headed mind and being blatantly honest. An example of Hypocritical self-deciet, would be a Christian husband, who beats his wife and kids, goes to Church to renounce his sins, only to come back home and start laying into his family once again. Thus in essense lying to himself. Hypocracy and self-deception in other words, are NOT welcomed among Satanists.

4. Another simple one, maybe you're all familiar with, "Do unto those as you'd wish them to do unto you", this is pretty much the opposite, respect those who respect you and have proven to be worthy of one's respect.

5. Simple. Someone gets in your way, attacks you whatever... Annihilate them in return. A code of ethics that most people tend to follow when provoked.

6. Firstly, "psychic vampires" are those whom you'd classify as a waste of time/effort and so forth... They are small people who feed upon YOUR time, YOUR efforts and YOUR energy. Those whom shower you with gifts, don't say a word BUT believe that you owe them. (I hope that makes sense.) The sixth statement is basically saying that if you are the perpetrature of an event, that you MUST accept the responsibility instead of passing it along. (Think along the lines of a murderer who's defense is, "The devil made me do it.")

7. This one means alot to me, through self-deception humans seem to have forgotten that we are indeed just animals... We may walk on two legs, we may be smart/spiritual/organized and so forth, yet we are STILL just animals... But due to the developement of our minds and understanding we are capable of being the most vicious of animals. Very true statement, only the human animal is capable of waging war, mass murder and such, animals only kill for survival but we are somewhat sadistic in killing.

8. Links along with the first statement... Anger, gluttony, lust, greed, jealousy... Crap, I forgot the other two. Would a Christian please post the Seven Deadly Sins... I've forgotten Anyway, indulgence is the key! Not abstinence nor compulsion.

9. We all know this last statement is true, without the threat of brimstone and eternal damnation, the Church would be a cult instead of a world-wide religion.

[Blacks42]

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him

Interprettation:
1. Basically, do not preach to those who don't want to listen. If your advise or opinion isn't needed, you can be sure it won't be heard.

2. This is a trait of the "psychic vampire", people do not want to carry your emotional baggage, so keep it to yourself and don't waste that persons time.

3. Common curtesy, if you are in someone's home, ACT like a civil human being and OBEY the master of the lair with respect.

4. This is the outcome of not respecting one's lair. If someone is in your abode and they disrespect you, you have every right to treat them as dirt.

5. Don't sexually advance on someone unless they want it to happen.

6. Interpret as you wish. Basically, do not commit theft, unless that person is asking for it to be stolen. (Hence why you should interpret this as you would... Some of us our quick to steal, while others are not.)

7. Acknowledge what you have asked for through the practice you used, as a Christian would thank their god for answering a prayer, a Satanist will acknowledge the power that has fulfilled his desires. Failure to do so will often leave you in ruins. (Which often happens with hypocritical self-decievers.)

8. My favourite. If you're a smoker who is constantly DISTURBED by whinging non-smokers, this statement applies to you. If someone is smoking, it is their business which you CAN avoid, if you subject yourself to it, shut up and put up with it.

9. DO NOT HARM LITTLE CHILDREN. No Satanist will, hence the "Satanic plea" in court is a charade.

10. Another one much like above, "Satanic Animal Sacrifices" are also a farce, no animal or child is hurt as they are the only PURE things in life.

11. Think of it as walking down the street, do not bother anyone using the same free space, if someone bothers YOU without reason, take them down. (By annihilating one's enemy, it does not neccessarily mean you have to kill them. Result to emotional, psychological and/or physical abuse as you see fit.)


Basically this is like a code of ethics for the living, breathing Satanist on how to socialize... Or be anti-social, whichever gets you randy :p

[Blacks42]

1. Stupidity

2. Pretentiousness

3. Solipsism

4. Self-deceit

5. Herd Conformity

6. Lack of Perspective

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies

8. Counterproductive Pride

9. Lack of Aesthetics


Interprettation:
1. The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

2. Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

3. Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

4. It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!

5. That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

6. Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

7. Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

8. That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

9. This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.


I couldn't be bothered going through these 9 myself, so I turned to outright plagarism

Ripped off of www.churchofsatan.com

Go there if you want to learn more, or throw a few questions my way or whatever... But umm, yeah, these 3 posts are the "back-bone" of Satanism, considering I couldn't be bothered summarizing the entire philosophy (After reading the statements you'll realize that Satanism is more of a philosophy/way of life than a religion.), so yeah.

There's alot more to it, but I believe this should be sufficient enough for those who have misconceptions of Satanism.

[Heretic Monkey]

Doesn't the Temple of Set ("set" probably not spelled that way) worship lucifer too? I seem to remember that there are only a handful of religions that actually view lucifer as a deity, and worship him.

[Beha]

Well, here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Set) a link about the Temple of Set, and as far as I could tell, they don't really worship Lucifer.

[Dantilus]

Besides, the only reason the majority of xians/other religions believe satanists WORSHIP the devil is because they were told so by their religious leaders. If you hear something from your priest/father/rabbi about another (seemingly opposite) religion, chances are you're going to believe it without questioning.

All of my xian friends thought that satanists worshipped satan because they were told so by their parents/fellow church-goers. Needless to say (but i say it anyway.... DAMN) i've educated them to try to open their eyes that everything is not what it seems.LaVey Satanism is not devil worship, but the word "Satanism" has meant devil worship for centuries. That's why LaVey chose it, and that's why people believe LaVey Satanism is devil worship. Thus, I'm not going to correct someone that says Satanism is devil worship unless the person is specifically referring to LaVey Satanism, because they would otherwise not be wrong.

[Chris]

Split to: Come Here With Your Questions on: Satanism II (http://forums.gamewinners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464105)

4th in the last 5 minutes, damn I'm tired of splitting :)

[Tate]

The seven deadly sins: pride, envy, anger, avarice, sadness, gluttony, and lust.

The whole satanic thing is really interesting. Because I've been living my life like that without realising it...:angel:

[Heretic Monkey]

The whole satanic thing is really interesting. Because I've been living my life like that without realising it...:angel:
I know how you feel. I've considered myself atheist for probably around 5/6 years now. A while ago i stumbled on this topic and realized i live my life basically to satanist standards, already reasoning out most of the points listed above.

However, i don't really consider myself a satanist due to the fact that i had most of those thoughts before ever really learning of the religion, and don't limit myself or restrict myself to the doctrine above.

Also, it's hard enough labeling yourself as an "atheist" in a public high school in the bible belt..... couldn't imagine labeling myself as a "satanist"........... glad i'm in college

[Tate]

Ha...I'd get mudered by a pack of religous education teachers. They think satanism is worshiping the devil. Kids get thrown out of my school for that kind of thing, but they don't get thrown out for theft, assault, etc. :bah:

[Chris]

However, i don't really consider myself a satanist due to the fact that i had most of those thoughts before ever really learning of the religion, and don't limit myself or restrict myself to the doctrine above.

Also, it's hard enough labeling yourself as an "atheist" in a public high school in the bible belt..... couldn't imagine labeling myself as a "satanist"........... glad i'm in college

Yeah, but at least you don't do something stupid and go from liberal New England to a Catholic College in the bible belt...who the hell would do that...yeah...it was me :bashhead:. I like it though, I'm excited to go back :) about a week til breaks over.

[ChrisKattan2005]

I hate having to explain to friends that satanists don't worship satan. people actually argue about it. there are just as many inconsistencies in the satanic bible as there are in the christian bible though, otherwise I was considering becoming one.

[Shaolin Buddha]

Well, according to Satanism, you do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked; so there are no need to tell anyone that you are Satanism at all!! And if they said you worship devil, you may safely say that the god they worship is devil as well, since under Satanism, you only pay respect to those who deserves them!!

[Tate]

How does any one know who their worshipping anyway? For all I know Jesus could have been the anti christ led to fooling me into worshipping him. Or he could have been some regular guy. Same goes for Mohamed and everything else.

So does Satanism actually have an entity of any sort? Or is it just beliefs on life style? Does it have view on an afterlife?

[Guregu]

I live a life of a Cristian... But, I know, reading of the forbidden fruits of my religion intrigues me.

I've been living my teenaged life as a Santanist- being so blind as to secomming to the very thing I was trainned to hate, and stear clear of.

It almost feels like I have been brainwashed into believe Satanism was a horrible, horrible thing.

We can't deny it. We are all satanists, at heart. We all feel lust- That sexual attraction to that special person... Envy- to want what your friend has... Sadness, because we are surrounded.. And we cannot controll it... Pride- Because, we're proud to have done the things we do, and to have pride, is to fulfill your very person.

We are only animals... This is all what we must feel, to survive.

[QuincyG]

is this religion created just to annoy christianity???

do u really think that satan is a good guy and that he will do good stuff for u if u are on his side???

[jackenape]

1. Yes.

2. Satanists don't tend to believe in Satan.

But for the hell of it: if only the good can enter Heaven, and Satan was in Heaven, then Satan must be good. :)

[Shaolin Buddha]

is this religion created just to annoy christianity???The name is indeed created to annoy christ.

do u really think that satan is a good guy and that he will do good stuff for u if u are on his side???
Irrelevant, most Satanist couldn't care more who Satan is.

[Heretic Monkey]

We can't deny it. We are all satanists, at heart. We all feel lust- That sexual attraction to that special person... Envy- to want what your friend has... Sadness, because we are surrounded.. And we cannot controll it... Pride- Because, we're proud to have done the things we do, and to have pride, is to fulfill your very person.

We are only animals... This is all what we must feel, to survive.
That's the whole basis of satanism (as is my understanding). It's about being what you are, not trying to live up to an established set of rules and "morals". Feel how you want, think how you want. That's the beauty of satanism.

[Shaolin Buddha]

But to say that you should live up to your own customised rules, that's like a rule itself... a rule of a rule...:bashhead: :bashhead: :bashhead:

[lovecloudzero]

it's amazing how many people live with these standards and rules and dont realize that they're the rules of satanism as well...but everyone of course grew up around the "satan" word stereotype that its evil.

[Shaolin Buddha]

That's probably why the word "Satan" was chosen; Satan is just a bunch of letters, merely a name; but it is considered as evil in some religions. Being a Satanist means you don't care what other religions think of you, but you value what's good for yourself.

[The Smart Patrol]

I think being a Satanist mostly means that you enjoy the looks of horror on people's faces when you tell them that you're a Satanist.

[lovecloudzero]

thats half of why i love it :devil: ...and i just used the devil smilie for that after explaining all this...heh.

[Sabre_Justice]

I think being a Satanist mostly means that you enjoy the looks of horror on people's faces when you tell them that you're a Satanist.
That's more or less the main reason I think people are attracted to Satanism- it's a blow against Christianity (or whatever else).

[Dr. Manhattan]

Exactly that is exactly right

[[biCho]]

Disagree. They (we?) are attracted to it because it offers independence from all the stupidity in this world, no more whacking around the bush, and doing what you KNOW is right. Basically, its living your life, respecting only the NECESSARY (respect the strong) boundaries, instead of living in equality with the meek, the stupid and the weak.

That's my two cents.

[Mr. DNA]

Yeah, I'd disagree with that Smart Patrol character as well. Sounds like a bit of a twat to me.

[Bain]

I hate having to explain to friends that satanists don't worship satan. people actually argue about it. there are just as many inconsistencies in the satanic bible as there are in the christian bible though, otherwise I was considering becoming one.

And to all with the same thought pattern.

Who wrote the Satanic bible and what was the inspiration?

[Duke Nukem]

The Satanic Bible were wrote by Anton Szandor LaVey and he were inspired by Friedrich Nietzsche, Machiavelli, Ragnar Redbeard and Ayn Rand.

More info can be found HERE. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Bible)

[Bain]

Satanists,

So who are the intelligent figureheads up to this point in history?

- Bain

[jackenape]

In the whole of its 40 year existence? Well, there's Anton LaVey, and...uh...Anton LaVey. He laid out his philosophy, and left it up to whomever chose to apply it to define its parameters. Kind of necessary, given the whole "you are your own god" theme.

[Duke Nukem]

I'm curios, were there never an original Satanic Bible?

[Bian]

I'm curios, were there never an original Satanic Bible?
What do you mean?

[Steven]

I think he meant an ancient copy. You know, just how the Bible has an Old Testament and a New Testament.

The answer is no, if that's what you meant.

[Bain]

In the whole of its 40 year existence? Well, there's Anton LaVey, and...uh...Anton LaVey. He laid out his philosophy, and left it up to whomever chose to apply it to define its parameters. Kind of necessary, given the whole "you are your own god" theme.

interesting you know there are many more benefits being a Mormon right?
(sarcasm cutting flesh)

[Steven]

You mean in the sense that Mormons believe in those separate levels of heaven, and how they can be a god of their own universe (world, planet, something like that)?

[Bain]

You mean in the sense that Mormons believe in those separate levels of heaven, and how they can be a god of their own universe (world, planet, something like that)?

Exactly, someone commented somewhere(specific I know), about how it's very Henotheistic a.k.a. tricky and very intelligent because it can get any kind of person believing in it...a pre-product of an intelligent Satanist. Am I wrong in my hypothesis?

[Steven]

Exactly, someone commented somewhere(specific I know), about how it's very Henotheistic a.k.a. tricky and very intelligent because it can get any kind of person believing in it...a pre-product of an intelligent Satanist. Am I wrong in my hypothesis?
I suppose I can see where you can make that connection, yes. However, I can't tell if you're saying an intelligent Satanist came up with the idea of Mormon or if you're saying it was like how Satanism was created.

Suprisingly to me, there is a large population of Mormon followers up here in Alaska, and I've come to learn that Mormons have very good family values. So that could be another appealing thing about that religion.

[jackenape]

interesting you know there are many more benefits being a Mormon right?
(sarcasm cutting flesh)
Only if there really is an afterlife. And even then, only if the guest list is as hard to get on as some say.

[Steven]

Only if there really is an afterlife. And even then, only if the guest list is as hard to get on as some say.
People have to go far out of their way to even dream of earning that spot.

[Bain]

I suppose I can see where you can make that connection, yes. However, I can't tell if you're saying an intelligent Satanist came up with the idea of Mormon or if you're saying it was like how Satanism was created.

Suprisingly to me, there is a large population of Mormon followers up here in Alaska, and I've come to learn that Mormons have very good family values. So that could be another appealing thing about that religion.

I am unintelligent to the fact that emotion can be void at times on forums; very unintelligent. But one could say it flows very well with satanist beliefs, not literally made by satan himself though.

Utah at the time when it was 90% mormons, they had the highest rate of suicide among teens and highest rate of divorce in the nation. When it comes to their families only the strong survive.

[Saint!]

When it comes to their families only the strong survive.

Scuse me for my 2 cents here, but isn't that better?

The strong survive to reproduce (the children of those families carry on values that kept the family together to create new families that also stick together) thats a way of Darwin's theory of Natural Selection, those weak die off, which allows the strong to live and survive, and make more strong babies.

So isn't it better off those families who were weak split up and not continue?

[MachSpeed]

Not to burst the bubble or anything, but reading back on the majority of posts pro-satanism, I've found a common pattern...it seems to benefit YOU. You as the person you decide to be. Who cares about others right? Why not satisfy yourself and get it over with hmm? I don't want anyone to assume that I am using a sarcastic or even a offensive tone, but I want them to read on understanding that I am being very level-headed and patient with this. I want someone to tell me how we can change the world, how we can help others, even ourselves, to become the most we can become. How do we influence and push forward for the best? How do we create positive impacts in society? How, when a decision is made to supposedly "perfect your life", in which "perfect" would mean having what you want when you want it. I don't believe that is the perfect life.

[jackenape]

Not to burst the bubble or anything, but reading back on the majority of posts pro-satanism, I've found a common pattern...it seems to benefit YOU.
But...we hid it so WELL.

I don't believe that is the perfect life.
Satanism doesn't prevent you from trying to save the world, either. I'm not seeing the problem.

[MachSpeed]

Let's at least try to be mature about this. Is sarcasm really necessary? Plus, if you can't see it preventing you from "saving the world," so to speak, then you're quit narrow-sighted. I don't say this in any offensive manner, but who will follow someone as selfish as satanism seems to reflect them to be? A good leader lifts people, and in turn is lifted as well. It's not lifting yourself to lift other people. It doesn't work like that.

[jackenape]

Let's at least try to be mature about this. Is sarcasm really necessary?
In this case? Yes. Yes it is.

Plus, if you can't see it preventing you from "saving the world," so to speak, then you're quit narrow-sighted.
Funny, I thought I was the one who didn't see the rules of Satanism confining people to a self-serving existence. I think the problem lies in how your interpretation of "narrow-sighted" doesn't actually fit the definition of the non-phrase.

I don't say this in any offensive manner, but who will follow someone as selfish as satanism seems to reflect them to be? A good leader lifts people, and in turn is lifted as well. It's not lifting yourself to lift other people. It doesn't work like that.
Oh, ok. I get it. You've the original, unedited Satanic Bible. The anti-forklift stuff was removed from the print version.

Satanism says to not do for those who don't deserve it. It doesn't say "don't do."

[MachSpeed]

For once, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could not be a jerk. Now then, why not help those who don't deserve it? Or perhaps before that subject is brought to debate, I should ask, who falls under the category of those who don't deserve it?

[jackenape]

For once, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could not be a jerk.
I've no doubt you would.

Now then, why not help those who don't deserve it? Or perhaps before that subject is brought to debate, I should ask, who falls under the category of those who don't deserve it?
I'd imagine those that have proven themselves undeserved of it. Satanism teaches reaction, not presumption.

[MachSpeed]

I guess what I'm still curious about here is in what way, or how, do they prove themselves undeserved of it? Give me an example please, so I can keep up to speed with you.

[jackenape]

Fourth Satanic Statement: Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

It's not hard to imagine how someone could prove themselves not worth trying to help. Use your imagination and stop expecting me to work to prove myself when you're the one making sweeping, baseless statements.

[MachSpeed]

Hmm...sounds to me like you're stuck in a corner, tough guy. Me? My belief? I believe anyone can become something great. Call me an optimist, because that's what I am. Anyone, can achieve anything. Those that don't believe in helping those that need it, are those who are undeserving.

[jackenape]

What corner? Ungratefulness, selfishness, laziness...it's not hard to come up with examples why you wouldn't waste your time helping someone. And before you go tossing around accusations, I've yet to see you back up a single one of those statements you blew in here throwing around.

And no, you're not an optimist. You're an idealist. It never ends well.

[MachSpeed]

And that's where your perception seems to fail. You're a clever man, you can come up with some great excuses. Although it may take a while, I'm patient. Aside from that, I've helped people out of dark paths. I've helped people become grateful. I've helped people become more. I care about each and every person, because I believe, yet again I say this, that anyone can be something great. Everyone is here for a reason.
Now, back to satanism. Satanism is so very selfish, so very deceiving and so very narrow-sighted, as I once said but you seemed to not understand. Fact of the matter is, satanism will not be the great leaders choice lifestyle. Satanism will not ever become greater than what other lifestyles there are. Satanism puts satanists into what I believe to be a state of false perspective. Get want you want, and all is well. What a way to live...

[jackenape]

And that's where your perception seems to fail. You're a clever man, you can come up with some great excuses.
I haven't made one. However...

Although it may take a while, I'm patient. Aside from that, I've helped people out of dark paths. I've helped people become grateful. I've helped people become more. I care about each and every person, because I believe, yet again I say this, that anyone can be something great. Everyone is here for a reason.
Straw man. How is this an issue, and which of your points does it support?

Now, back to satanism. Satanism is so very selfish, so very deceiving and so very narrow-sighted, as I once said but you seemed to not understand. Fact of the matter is, satanism will not be the great leaders choice lifestyle. Satanism will not ever become greater than what other lifestyles there are. Satanism puts satanists into what I believe to be a state of false perspective. Get want you want, and all is well. What a way to live...
Be responsible and recognize responsibility in others; be kind unless the kindness is proved unwarranted; don't deny yourself based on manufactured (read: religious) psuedo-ethics; live, work, and hope in this world, but don't expect miracles from on high; man is as much a product of nature as everything else. I could point out how even these are guidelines and not blueprints, or make a sarcastic comment, or even call you wrong on all counts. I think, though, I'll just shrug. Past experience tells me it won't matter. How Satanic of me.

[MachSpeed]

Well, whatever response you had planned came too late. I need to go now. Thanks for the somewhat well-mannered discussion. Plan on continuing it tomorrow or at a later time. I look forward to it, have a good night.

Straw man. How is this an issue, and which of your points does it support?

I believe it had something to do with the fact that those who are 'undeserved' deserve happiness just as much as everyone else.


Be responsible and recognize responsibility in others; be kind unless the kindness is proved unwarranted; don't deny yourself based on manufactured (read: religious) psuedo-ethics; live, work, and hope in this world, but don't expect miracles from on high; man is as much a product of nature as everything else.

Exactly, man is as much a product as nature as everything else. Thus, they are equal and should be given equal opportunity to be a 'deserving' person.

I could point out how even these are guidelines and not blueprints, or make a sarcastic comment, or even call you wrong on all counts. I think, though, I'll just shrug. Past experience tells me it won't matter. How Satanic of me.

Oh wow, you're simply hilarious! I wish you could see me laughing right now! "How satanic of you!" Good one!!

[jackenape]

Exactly, man is as much a product as nature as everything else. Thus, they are equal and should be given equal opportunity to be a 'deserving' person.
...they are. Reaction, not presumption, remember?

[MachSpeed]

Okay, so what I am gathering from this is that if someone wants to be happy, they have to do it themselves without help from anyone. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[jackenape]

No one ever said that so...you're wrong.

[MachSpeed]

Alright, I'm wrong on that point. Thank you. Since you aren't saying anything more, why don't we jump back to the subject of selfishness. Would you or would you not agree that satanism is selfish?

[jackenape]

Would you or would you not agree that satanism is selfish?
No. Again, it's in the Statements: Satan represents kindness, an absence of self-deceit, and responsibility. The Satanic Rules have you refrain from burdening others with your problems, respect the opposite sex, refrain from killing without the need for food or self-defense, harming anyone without being given reason or children for any reason at all. Decidedly unselfish.

[SegaDragon]

Satanism isn't selfish at all. It says don't give to the undeserving, not to not give at all. It's fine that you've "helped people out of dark places in their lives" and what-not, but even a Satanist can do that. Nowhere in the religion does it say not to help someone in need.

And example:
Don't give money to someone who never works. They are undeserving of it. They're unmotivated, and they refuse to work. If you give them money to "get off their feet," they'll spend it unwisely and go back to the same gutter they were. They are undeserving of your money, and you do not help them.
How is that selfish? It's practically common sense.

Whereas if a good person is in trouble, help them. They're a good person, and deserving of help, as they give it to others in trouble.

I'm not seeing the selfishness in here.

I totally agree with the second rule more than words can say. If we'd all focus on making ourselves happy (which does not mean ignoring everyone else), the world would be a much better place. I believe there's a saying about what happens to the man who tries to please everyone. It's basically saying, don't. If someone unhappy is always focusing on making others happy, that person will always be unhappy. If everyone focused on making themselves happy, then everyone (at least many more people) would be happy.
Again, just because you focus on making yourself happy, doesn't mean you ignore everyone else. I focus on making myself happy, and I know others who do the same, but I don't ignore others at all. I love helping others, and I help the deserving any chance I get; but I shouldn't ignore myself and give my entire being to making others happy.

[MachSpeed]

Boy, I feel stupid, and I have every reason to. Oddly enough it took some time for me to quit being stubborn and it took SegaDragon's statement to clear things up. I was finally given the answer I wanted. I see where you are going with this, and I, being the naive teenager for the duration of the argument, was too prideful and arrogant to see what was right in front of me. I'm not afraid to say that I still disagree with satanism and most of its laws. I still remain steadfast in my own beliefs and principles and will until the day I die, but until I'm more educated and solid in my lifestyle, I've no right to bust in arguing about something I barely understand. Thanks for the lesson, it'll prove invaluable, I'm sure, in my future.

[Shalgroth]

I know this is way off topic, but I just can't believe how this thread has been around for as long as it has.

And so many people educated in (LaVeyan) Satanism, it brings warmth to my black little heart. I've missed the intelligent debate of these forums, and I'm glad to see that carry on in this thread.

[Kanis]

holy ****. Shalgroth? i had thought you dead to this part of the internet LONG LONG LONG ago